17 replies to this topic

[RCorrie]

Folks in Springfield, Ill., witnessed a bizarre scene two years ago. Thousands protested outside the Capitol, chanting: "Raise my taxes! Raise my taxes! Raise my taxes!"
Who protests for higher taxes?

Government unions do. The American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees helped organize the rally.

This is the new face of the union movement. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported this past Friday that union rates fell again last year. Fewer than one of every eight Americans now belong to unions.

Of those, most work in the government; less than 7 percent of private-sector workers belong to unions. The Postal Service employs twice as many union members as the auto industry does.

Competition makes it difficult for private-sector unions to survive. During the 1950s, a third of Americans belonged to unions -- during a tightly regulated economy with few international competitors.

Americans could choose to buy expensive union-made cars from Ford, or expensive union made cars from General Motors, or expensive union-made cars from Chrysler.

Deregulation and free trade have since made the economy more competitive, giving Americans more choices. Now Americans can buy from whomever offers the most value. Unfortunately for the union movement, that company is often nonunion.

The auto industry. The steel industry. Trucking. Construction. Unionized companies have fallen behind in industry after industry. This makes organizing new members difficult.

Few workers want their company to wind up like General Motors or Bethlehem Steel. Only one of every 10 nonunion workers tells pollsters he or she wants to join a union. Unionization rates are lower now than when President Franklin Roosevelt signed the National Labor Relations Act in 1935.

Unions remain strong in government because government has no competition. It does not matter how efficiently or wastefully the government operates. Americans must pay their taxes or go to jail.

So in government, unions can raise costs without risking their jobs. The taxpayers must pick up the tab. Government unions have remained strong because of these factors. They now represent two of every five government employees.

This explains why the overall unionization rate fell last year. Union rates did not fall in either the private sector or in government. But while the mostly nonunion private sector created almost 2 million jobs, state and local governments cut spending.

That meant fewer unionized government employees. The strength of the union movement now moves in tandem with the size of the government. This would have surprised the early leaders of the labor movement.

They did not think unions belonged in government. Government unions bargain with elected representatives over how to spend taxes. They thought that made no sense. George Meany, the first president of the AFL-CIO, famously declared that "Bargaining collectively is impossible in government."

Today's union movement has a direct stake in big government, no matter how well that serves the public.

Government unions do not want more efficient government; that means fewer dues-paying union members. Government unions do not want reasonable benefits; they want to retire in their 50s.

Even President Obama believes that schools should remove bad teachers. But education unions disagree. They want their members to have jobs for life, whether or not their students learn to read.

Taxes pay for all this, which explains union opposition to tax relief. It means less money for them. Government unions have lobbied for almost every recent tax increase.

Illinois' union protestors got their tax hike. The Legislature increased the state income tax by two-thirds. Business taxes went up almost 50 percent. Government unions hit the jackpot.

The rest of Illinois suffered. Businesses fled the state, taking jobs with them. Last year, Illinois' unemployment rate increased the most in the nation. They would have done better to follow Wisconsin's example. The government should serve the public, not the other way around.

James Sherk is the senior policy analyst in labor economics at the Heritage Foundation.

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Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexa...1#ixzz1lF2tlIH8

[yougottabekiddin]

You are a moron lol. You are simply regurgitating talking points created by the ultra conservative Heritage Foundation. If you are stupid enough to swallow THEIR bulls hit then I have a big load of something else you can swallow too lol.

[RCorrie]

I have worked in a couple of unions. They are a cesspool of sloth and stupidity.

[yougottabekiddin]

You have never "worked" ANYWHERE lol. You come here to troll because your a paid antagonist lol. You are someones who re But Obama will win re-election and all of your worst nightmares will come true lol. You and your handlers will have to fork over some of the wealth you have been squeezing out of the middle class, and the more you guys cry about it the more pleasure it brings us )

[union578]

RCorrie, on February 02 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

I have worked in a couple of unions. They are a cesspool of sloth and stupidity.

Really ??? Not mine...More right to work for nothing crap....Keep listening to Rush, your drinking the Kool Aid..See ya in November when Obama is re-elected.

[scb]

-yougotta & union578-

Yep, no doubt Obama will be re-elected (and, truthfully, I envision that as a real possibility) and square the economic situation away. After all, he's done such a bang-up job with it so far, hasn't he?

With Obama and his crowd in mind, it seems Alex de Tocqueville's comments of a couple hundred years ago are becoming more and more relevant every day. i.e. -

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

....and, in light of 47% of the country's households paying NO Federal income tax AT ALL,.....

"A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it."

-scb-

[Overallowed in 381]

I'm still waiting for all that money to trickle down to me from the Bush Era!! Wonder why it's taking so long? Obama is doing a good job!

[11:58pm]

Remember... A rising tide lifts all boats.... That is if you are lucky enough to have a boat.

[IBBadDude]

Scab,

We have had this debate over and over. You believe that companies will be responsible and do what is morally right without any regulation. Companies have proven over and over that they can not do it without a regulating factor. Unions are the best regulating factor because the people decide democratically what they feel is mortally correct.

I know your response already so don't waste your typing. You don't belong on a Teamster site. You don't like the Teamsters, you feel we are parasites, we are lazy and are a drag on the global and national economy.

I pay a lot of taxes and have never complained because I love the schools my children go to, like to call the fire department if my house burns, enjoy driving on a paved highway, love drinking unpoisined water, when I eat food I am happy to know its been inspected, I enjoy that my savings is federally insured as long as wall street doesn't steal it , when I go to park or community center it makes me proud, when I see people or myself on public transit, I love to see my aunt so happy when she gets that letter from her grandson overseas in the military for 47 cents delivered on time.

The list goes on and it's a fact that all income levels in the US are paying the lowest taxes in more than 50 years. I think the 1% should be paying a lot more than they pay and I believe all are willing to pay more if the super prevliged do it as well.

Because we are paying such a low amount in taxes as a whole, Corprate America shipping our jobs out of the country, the banks and insuranse companies collapsing our financial markets so a few can get rich at the expense of the worker and the oil companies monopoly and greed it destroyed our economy.

Not unions, not government workers, not the 99%.

We are rising, we are taking to the streets so get off our site and go peddle your bullshit somewhere in your travels because in 2012 the American worker is waking up and taking its country back.

[scb]

IBBadDue;

You consider COMPELING "membership" to be "morally right"? [smile] Guess you have a different definition of what is "moral" than the one I grew up with. And of "democracy" as well!

As for your claim of....

"Because we are paying such a low amount in taxes as a whole, Corprate America shipping our jobs out of the country, the banks and insuranse companies collapsing our financial markets so a few can get rich at the expense of the worker and the oil companies monopoly and greed it destroyed our economy.

...have you ever RESEARCHED what the corporate tax rates are in this country? Depending on the source, they're either the first or second HIGHEST in the industrialized world! Do you think corporations are "morally" obligated to provide jobs in THIS country and subject themselves to such tax rates - especially when they're confronted with "union" forces which make the labor available LESS efficient and LESS cost-effective when compared with other parts of the world? And do you credit "the collapse of financial markets, banks and insurance companies primarily to the LACK of "regulation"? Those who were forced to face the existence of Fannie Mae and Fannie Mac, along with mortgage issuing requirements and such might take issue with that sort of claim. For example, did CSPF "collapse" due to inadequate REGULATION? Or did it take a dive because TEAMSTERS COULDN'T CONCERN THEMSELVES WITH THE VIABILITY OF THEIR EMPLOYERS?!?!

Got news for you, "IBBAD"....corporations didn't take the jobs they have to offer overseas because they simply wwanted to, or because unions here represented the most ATTRACTIVE labor alternative, by any means. In that sense, it's just like the de-regularized trucking industry; at the time "de-regulation" came into play, the Teamsters pretty much had the entire fish bowl all to themselves. Competitors were literally having to start-out from scratch. All the Teamsters had to do to retain their advantage with employers was show a MODERATE measure of competitiveness. What did they do instead? They pissed their jobs away.

"Yes", you're "taking to the streets", alright. Hell, after you've destroyed your job opportunities, where else do you have to go? Unfortunately, "taking to the streets" isn't going to bring jobs back. Nor is it going to make those "taking to the streets" any more attractive to potential employers. Is the government going to create and maintain extra jobs for those "street takers"? If so, WHO MAINTAINS THE GOVERNMENT?! Who FINANCES the jobs the government "gives"?

It's a real Hobson's choice, isn't it? In the end, all labor can do is make itself ATTRACTIVE to those who would have jobs to offer. Over the long haul, they can't FORCE jobs to stay on our shores. Nor can they - or any other entity - force those with initiative to expend their resources IF THEY DON'T WANT TO! What kind of country can the American worker "take back"? The kind that resulted from the revolutions in Russia from 1917 forward? One like pre-capitalist China? Or like that like North Korea or Cuba today? Just HOW is LABOR - without the voluntary support of capital and entrepenuers who are granted the fruits of their initiative - going to create and maintain viable jobs? Seems to me that's a quagmire that those such as yourself can'T find a way out of. How are you going to FORCE business entities to give you what you want....while NOT forcing them to go someplace else? Maybe you have a solution for that dilema. Time will tell, I guess.

Anyway, if all that's "bullshit", I'd like someone to explain to me just how that's so. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many willing to take up that challenge lately.

-scb-

[IBBadDude]

I knew you couldnt resist, lololololol.

The CORPRATE Tax rate is very different then what is actually PAID you moron, Lol. You sound so smart in type but it doesn't work in reality. I would love to have a cup of coffee with you some day and educate you on many levels.

I challenged you on a string months ago and you bowed out as Shaman and many others witnessed.

We have had this debate, we have bantered back and forth before, I don't have time for you. Have a wonderful day.

Thank you,
You made my day.

[scb]

-IBBad-

Yep...what's PAID *IS* different...primarily because firms park earnings made overseas and pay local taxes THERE instead of subjecting themselves to the outrageous rates here they'd be subject to if they repatriated those earnings. Taken a look at UPS's financials recently, by way of example? Fact is, that's PART 'N' PARCEL OF THE JOBS PROBLEM!!!!

And "yep", you sure "challenged" me, alright...as I'm sure "Shaman" (and you ARE joking, using him as a reference, aren't you?. Who next? Heisler? Farley? RealTeam?) would attest. And yet it seems that, once again, a "righteous" Teamster doesn't "have the time". My, isn't THAT a precious surprise! A Teamster backing-out of tryng to logically defend his position! Who da' thunk it! Anyway, thanks for expressing a desire to "educate" me. I'm sure you would just have so MUCH to offer! [final "grin"]

-scb-

[towdoctor]

Why do good Union men engage in dialogue with ant union dolts spewing their anti american tea party trash?

[scb]

-towdoctor-

Don't consider myself as one of those "dolts" you describe, but as to why they "engage", could it perhaps be because of a little matter called SELF-PRESERVATION! After all, look how "well" NOT engaging has worked out. And look where the jobs come from.

One can only hide from reality so long until reality bites you in the ass.

-scb-

[ibc734]

Good first post Corrie! I live in Illinois which is infected with libtards and unionism. Our state is now the most bankrupt per capita in the nation. We've got lib scum like Madigan and Quinn who have never met a tax hike they did not like. Those who live in Illinois and work there realize how many companies have left here to go to more business friendly states. Unions are blood suckers.

[JoeFranco63]

I don`t believe taxes have much to do with why union membership is down. That was the topic right? Why Union Membership Keeps Falling. Union Membership is falling because of the constant negativity about unions that is being pressed upon workers , both union and non union workers. Turn on your t.v., open your newspaper, listen to your radio, hop onto tnet, and you`ll find negative rhetoric being thrown at you left and right. This is on your spare time, how about the eight plus hours spent at work? The employer is constantly using scare tactics and false information to pump fear into America`s workers, thus leaving a negative image about what it is to be a union worker.

Remember those great photos of folks proudly holding up signs that they created reading " I too eat steak now, thanks to Hoffa" ? That`s the image that should be displayed in workers minds when the word union comes up. Take pride in your union and your country. Don`t forget the unions helped build the middle class in this country. Help build union membership to epic numbers. It`s possible, and it will happen within our lifetime.

[Der Rittmeister]

Joe, you have hit the taget right on the head! Even Union members grumble and trash talk the Union. Don't get involved any more and have become have become so complacent they will let everything Unions have done the last 100 years fall through their fingers. They allow people to trash talk instead of putting them in their place and they let them continue to spread lies and misinformation and turning more and more workers off to the idea of joining a Union.

The Unions didn't bankrupt California or Illinois, greed did. Greedy banks, greedy CEOs and greedy politicians. Workers and unions have not done anything to be blamed for work being moved over seas and factories shut down infavor of what amounts to slave labor in Mexico Maylasia and India. Why not make kids work for free until they turn 21 so companies can compete with China? Maybe we should reset wages for everone in the United States to 1900 wages? Would that make you happy ibc734? how about just paying everyone minimum wage? Does that sound like a good idea?

Who are you going to blame if you are successful in getting rid of the Union? Because the greed and the bullshit will remain at the top sucking money from the middle class worker. the only difference will be that workers will fall into the poor house while the CEO gets richer.

The scenes from 1930 when Teamsters got sick of being bullied by greedy bosses will happen again for sure. I just hope no one loses their life this time. Keep Rush on all day at work scab, so you keep your head in the sand. When the Union members wake up there will be a change!

[scb]

-Der Rittmeister-

Do you REALLY believe that "workers and unions have not done anything to be blamed for work being moved over seas and factories shut down" in this country?!?! Are you TRULY prepared to state unequivocally that the refusal of domestic "workers and unions" to be competitive on the world economic stage has had NOTHING to do with employers deciding to take the jobs they had to offer elsewhere? Again, R E A L L Y ! ! !

As for the "good" unions do, I can't help but once again bring up the comment from a "union" enthusiast [similar to yourself, although representing UAW] who bragged on a AFL-CIO "blog" recently about how (and I'm paraphrasing here) "the UAW built the automotive industry and made the city of Detroit what it is today". Well, the fact is that, the year the UAW was founded (1935), there were comparatively MORE employees in the the domestic auto industry, and Detroit was actually had a GREATER population then than it does today! I.e. - what the UAW did WAS TO TEAR DOWN; not "build up".

Seems to me that those workers who are most likely to "fall into the poor house" are those who are without a job. And what's the primary reason people have lost their jobs over the last couple of decades? Well, it seems to be because the unions that represented them drove their jobs away!!! Again, look at relative membership/job figures for the Teamsters, or for the UAW, or for the USW, or the UFCW, or the IAM, etc, etc. Fact is, it isn't the "CEO's" or "the 1%" who are sucking this country's life blood away; rather, it's guys like "Rittmeister" who have led employers to believe that hiring workers represented by such types is a losing proposition.

One thing one needs to remember; CEO's, banks, etc, function on a competitive MARKET basis They are paid on the basis of what natural market forces determine them to be worth. Unions alone demand to be compensated in a synthetic, contrived fashion, unconnected to actual value....and, when that happens, those who would employ labor are going to look elsewhere. That's as natural as water finding its own level...and as inevitable. Unions can react POSITIVELY to that "natural" fact...or they can continue to course they've been on. And, in case you hadn't noticed, the course they've followed so far hasn't led to much success.

-scb-