107 replies to this topic

[Farley]

docky come on...most of America is NOT conservative and you know it....when questioned on individual partisan issues people come out for the liberal position////however the money is definitely on the regressive political side...reichwing money owns the media and repeats lies so often that people like yoprself consider them the truth, eh? for example here are some established goBPer lies.:

• Tax cuts for the rich trickle down to everyone else. Baloney. Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush both sliced taxes on the rich and what happened? Most Americans' wages (measured by the real median wage) began flattening under Reagan and has dropped since George W. Bush. Trickle-down economics is a cruel joke.
  
• Higher taxes on the rich would hurt the economy and slow job growth. False. From the end of World War II until 1981, the richest Americans faced a top marginal tax rate of 70 percent or above. Under Dwight Eisenhower it was 91 percent. Even after all deductions and credits, the top taxes on the very rich were far higher than they've been since. Yet the economy grew faster during those years than it has since. (Don't believe small businesses would be hurt by a higher marginal tax; fewer than 2 percent of small business owners are in the highest tax bracket.)
  
• Shrinking government generates more jobs. Wrong again. It means fewer government workers - everyone from teachers, fire fighters, police officers, and social workers at the state and local levels to safety inspectors and military personnel at the federal. And fewer government contractors, who would employ fewer private-sector workers. According to Moody's economist Mark Zandi (a campaign advisor to John McCain), the $61 billion in spending cuts proposed by the House GOP will cost the economy 700,000 jobs this year and next.
  
• Cutting the budget deficit now is more important than boosting the economy. Untrue. With so many Americans out of work, budget cuts now will shrink the economy. They'll increase unemployment and reduce tax revenues. That will worsen the ratio of the debt to the total economy. The first priority must be getting jobs and growth back by boosting the economy. Only then, when jobs and growth are returning vigorously, should we turn to cutting the deficit.
  
• Medicare and Medicaid are the major drivers of budget deficits. Wrong. Medicare and Medicaid spending is rising quickly, to be sure. But that's because the nation's health-care costs are rising so fast. One of the best ways of slowing these costs is to use Medicare and Medicaid's bargaining power over drug companies and hospitals to reduce costs, and to move from a fee-for-service system to a fee-for-healthy outcomes system. And since Medicare has far lower administrative costs than private health insurers, we should make Medicare available to everyone.
  
• Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Don't believe it. Social Security is solvent for the next 26 years. It could be solvent for the next century if we raised the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security payroll tax. That ceiling is now $106,800.
  
• It's unfair that lower-income Americans don't pay income tax. Wrong. There's nothing unfair about it. Lower-income Americans pay out a larger share of their paychecks in payroll taxes, sales taxes, user fees, and tolls than everyone else.

Demagogues through history have known that big lies, repeated often enough, start being believed - unless they're rebutted. These seven economic whoppers are just plain wrong. Make sure you know the truth - and spread it on.

[scb]

-Farley-

While well aware that the terms "honesty" and "truth" are fairly much meaningless to you, for the benefit of others who appreciate a bit of integrity, I'm posting the following link....

http://www.econlib.o...eaganomics.html

..from a Libertarian-inclined site, which includes the following paragraph referring to the Reagan administration.....

"Most of the effects of these policies were favorable, even if somewhat disappointing compared to what the administration predicted. Economic growth increased from a 2.8 percent annual rate in the Carter administration, but this is misleading because the growth of the working-age population was much slower in the Reagan years. Real GDP per working-age adult, which had increased at only a 0.8 annual rate during the Carter administration, increased at a 1.8 percent rate during the Reagan administration. The increase in productivity growth was even higher: output per hour in the business sector, which had been roughly constant in the Carter years, increased at a 1.4 percent rate in the Reagan years. Productivity in the manufacturing sector increased at a 3.8 percent annual rate, a record for peacetime."

On a personal note, as one who studied the "stagflation" of the 60's and early 70's in his economics classes, and who was affected by the "real growth" of the Carter inflation (I had an employee - a UPS driver - who took out a 16.5% - got that....SIXTEEN POINT FIVE PERCENT!!!! - thirty year mortgage!!!), I take issue with your claim of "real growth".

On another note: your view of "health care costs rising so rapidly"...now that wouldn't be because of the self-aggrandizement of "good" union members such as yourself, would it? Wanna' review the Northern Michigan Hospital nurses strike, for example? (remember, that's the one in which the junior Hoffa promised he'd walk back in the hospital at the head of the nurses when they successfully concluded their job action. Unfortunately, that was another promise he didn't keep, in that they all lost their jobs....albeit after wastefully INCREASING costs of the health service provider by a remarkable degree.)

As for "unemployment"....well, perhaps I'm getting a little cynical in my old age....but does anyone REALLY think that unemployment is going to improve in the country - particularly in the case of organized labor - until potential employees are willing to demonstrate that they're competitive on a world stage? Look around on this site alone; how likely is it that ANY employer - even a third world one paying third world wages - would want to employ individuals who essentially have only "gimme, gimme" to offer?

As for it not being "unfair" for lower-income citizens to not pay taxes....well, spoken like an individual who's quite willing to demand that his betters support him, but is unwilling to make any positive contribution on his own. Yeah, they may pay a "larger share of their paychecks in payroll taxes, sales taxes, user fees, and tolls than everyone else" (although "everyone else" is essentially the same number of individuals as those who don't pay Fed. income tax at all)...but they STILL don't support even themselves; i.e.- they're paying less, because they're EARNING less! And they're earning less because - economically - THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING LESS!!!! Is that the type of conduct we, as an economic society, should ENCOURAGE? I think not. Some degree of a "safety net" is fine...but defining and maintaining a non-contributory "gimme, gimme" class of people such as yourself is NOT. And, in truth, over the long term, it simply can't happen. Those that contribute and make a POSITIVE contribution to society tend to get tired of being imposed upon unfairly...and, one way or another, will find a way (they DO tend to be the most intelligent and ambitious, after all) to avoid that unfair imposition....to the point of withdrawing from that society altogether. And what happens to the would-be "workers" then, when there aren't people around with the desire to employ them anymore? Are they going to create their own jobs? Or, in the manner of real-world Communists, are they going to try to subsist for a while on the property they confiscated until such time as it's all used up...and then go down in flames? What? (in that vein, I've told the story in the past of the British government in the late '70's/very early 80's being reduced to paying UPS to hire and train in place their retired military personnel in Germany simply because the British economy simply had no room for them at home. Is that what we want the U.S. to be brought down to?)

Lastly, in many cases, I don't consider many government "jobs" to be true "jobs" in the first place. I'm reminded of the collectors who made their appearance on this board a few years back when the Teamsters went on strike against the PA toll road....their efforts to justify their existence became downright ludicrous ("See if we'll ever give directions to motorists coming of the toll road in the future" kind of thing) Yeah, they are paid a salary...but, in many cases, it's not an EARNED salary, or wages for a job that's really necessary and or productive. You're seeing the dodges along those lines on the part of postal workers now....justifying their current numbers is one Hell of a stretch, but they seem to think that the rest of society OWES them a living simply because they exist.

Sorry. Someone has to pay the piper. Are guys like you going to do it? Yeah...right! That'd be kinda' like expecting termites to develop, construct, and maintain our nation's housing. Just ain't gonna' happen.

-scb-

[dockman]

farley we'll see how many lefties get elected ...

[dockman]

rightwing money owns the media
these are the people that are protesting ... do you think this is the majority farley ? maybe in your world

[Farley]

before a "lefty" gets elected, a lefty will need to run for office....and I don't see any "lefties" running....just a bunch of insane goBPers controlled by media blow holes, corporate fascists, and snake handlers running against some center right spineless democrats....

[unionbustersandtrollsout]

Thank you Farley for the great post!!

I am confident there are people raging in the occupied streets declaring this very message


docky come on...most of America is NOT conservative and you know it....when questioned on individual partisan issues people come out for the liberal position////however the money is definitely on the regressive political side...reichwing money owns the media and repeats lies so often that people like yoprself consider them the truth, eh? for example here are some established goBPer lies.:

• Tax cuts for the rich trickle down to everyone else. Baloney. Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush both sliced taxes on the rich and what happened? Most Americans' wages (measured by the real median wage) began flattening under Reagan and has dropped since George W. Bush. Trickle-down economics is a cruel joke.
  
• Higher taxes on the rich would hurt the economy and slow job growth. False. From the end of World War II until 1981, the richest Americans faced a top marginal tax rate of 70 percent or above. Under Dwight Eisenhower it was 91 percent. Even after all deductions and credits, the top taxes on the very rich were far higher than they've been since. Yet the economy grew faster during those years than it has since. (Don't believe small businesses would be hurt by a higher marginal tax; fewer than 2 percent of small business owners are in the highest tax bracket.)
  
• Shrinking government generates more jobs. Wrong again. It means fewer government workers - everyone from teachers, fire fighters, police officers, and social workers at the state and local levels to safety inspectors and military personnel at the federal. And fewer government contractors, who would employ fewer private-sector workers. According to Moody's economist Mark Zandi (a campaign advisor to John McCain), the $61 billion in spending cuts proposed by the House GOP will cost the economy 700,000 jobs this year and next.
  
• Cutting the budget deficit now is more important than boosting the economy. Untrue. With so many Americans out of work, budget cuts now will shrink the economy. They'll increase unemployment and reduce tax revenues. That will worsen the ratio of the debt to the total economy. The first priority must be getting jobs and growth back by boosting the economy. Only then, when jobs and growth are returning vigorously, should we turn to cutting the deficit.
  
• Medicare and Medicaid are the major drivers of budget deficits. Wrong. Medicare and Medicaid spending is rising quickly, to be sure. But that's because the nation's health-care costs are rising so fast. One of the best ways of slowing these costs is to use Medicare and Medicaid's bargaining power over drug companies and hospitals to reduce costs, and to move from a fee-for-service system to a fee-for-healthy outcomes system. And since Medicare has far lower administrative costs than private health insurers, we should make Medicare available to everyone.
  
• Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Don't believe it. Social Security is solvent for the next 26 years. It could be solvent for the next century if we raised the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security payroll tax. That ceiling is now $106,800.
  
• It's unfair that lower-income Americans don't pay income tax. Wrong. There's nothing unfair about it. Lower-income Americans pay out a larger share of their paychecks in payroll taxes, sales taxes, user fees, and tolls than everyone else.

Demagogues through history have known that big lies, repeated often enough, start being believed - unless they're rebutted. These seven economic whoppers are just plain wrong. Make sure you know the truth - and spread it on.

[dockman]

Farley, on October 14 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

before a "lefty" gets elected, a lefty will need to run for office....and I don't see any "lefties" running....just a bunch of insane goBPers controlled by media blow holes, corporate fascists, and snake handlers running against some center right spineless democrats....

obama is running again and he got endorsed by the communist party USA for prez in 2012 ..... now you got somebody to vote for

[dockman]

well well well some more socialists are throwing in their support for the occupy wall streeters ...yup , you guest it ..the NAZI's

http://www.thegatewa...treet-movement/

[unionbustersandtrollsout]

Protests of the 99% ers all over the world.

Riots broke out in Rome

http://www.cnn.com/2...py-goes-global/

move your money from a bank to a credit union

We already use Minnesota Teamsters Credit Union

[xg21]

Community bank will pay customers to use debit cards


Community Bank, which has 17 branches throughout Manatee and four other southwest Florida counties, is joining the outcry against bank debit fees by offering new customers the opposite: a monthly payment. The $5 per month Community Bank is offering anyone who opens a Value Checking account is a direct response to the $3 to $5 monthly debit card fees larger banks are starting to charge, bank officials said.

Pembles said Community Bank "doesn't think we have to charge $5 a month to make an account profitable."


http://www.bradenton...ia-P3hYo.mailto



"I Am Not Moving," juxtaposes Occupy Wall Street scenes with footage of the Arab Spring as Hillary Clinton and Obama speechify on the people's rights of expression and assembly. Watch it,









Solidarity hero Lech Walesa is flying to New York to show his support for the Occupy Wall Street protesters.

"How could I not respond," Walesa told a Polish newspaper Wednesday. "The thousands of people gathered near Wall Street are worried about the fate of their future, the fate of their country. This is something I understand."

A former shipyard worker who led Poland's successful revolt against Soviet communism, Walesa said "capitalism is in crisis" and not just in America.

"This is a worldwide problem," he told the Lublin-based Dziennik Wschodni newspaper. "The Wall Street protesters have focused a magnifying glass on the problem."


Read more: http://www.nydailyne...l#ixzz1b1taic1x

[Farley]

docky. you will never know how much I wish Old Bama was a "leftist" instead of a corporatist that has had his ineffectual Attorney General Holder (must be Alberto Gonzales's brother) do NOTHING to the crooks in the banks and on Wall Street, NOTHING to address the war crimes of the CHENEY/JimBeam/bush administration, done NOTHING to stem the goBPer plan to restrict the vote and steal the 2012 election....no sorry docky, Old Bama is FAR right of Nixon, Reagan, etc.....no lefties at all.....the last vestige of a lefty politico died in an airplane crash in Minnesota.....the problem is docky, with your vantage point.....the media and reichwing has moved your vantage into insane territory so far that the simple truth and common sense appear to be "far left".....think about it.

[dockman]

the bank bailout was 3yrs. ago and the prez. they support voted for the bailout while he was senator ... the protests are on the wrong street and city it belongs in washington ... the dems had control for two years ..unemployment is higher today than it was before obama took office ... 46.2million americans are now living in poverty... obama signed some new free trade deals and the illegals are still here taking jobs and driving down wages ... and obama is letting the mexican trucks in ...... meanwhile the leftists that are out protesting, want more government and still support obama ? btw boys and girls the United States is not and never was a democracy we live in a REPUBLIC ...take your complaints to Washington.. and exercise your right to vote . ...amazing public education can't even teach Civics these days




washington is to blame

http://thehill.com/p...han-wall-street

[dockman]

Farley, on October 17 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

docky. you will never know how much I wish Old Bama was a "leftist" instead of a corporatist that has had his ineffectual Attorney General Holder (must be Alberto Gonzales's brother) do NOTHING to the crooks in the banks and on Wall Street, NOTHING to address the war crimes of the CHENEY/JimBeam/bush administration, done NOTHING to stem the goBPer plan to restrict the vote and steal the 2012 election....no sorry docky, Old Bama is FAR right of Nixon, Reagan, etc.....no lefties at all.....the last vestige of a lefty politico died in an airplane crash in Minnesota.....the problem is docky, with your vantage point.....the media and reichwing has moved your vantage into insane territory so far that the simple truth and common sense appear to be "far left".....think about it.

he did receive endorsement from the communist party usa...they disagree with you ....

[xg21]

So much for regulating the banks. I see where the fight should be concentrated on Congress and getting them to vote to protect the people. Of course the following should raise concern because the FDIC was set up to protect you, the 99%'er from these kind of schemes. But then again it keeps the theme of the bailouts constant, Privatize the Profits, Socialize the Losses.


Bank of America moves garbage properties to FDIC-insured subsidiary for back door bailout



Three years after taxpayers rescued some of the biggest U.S. lenders, regulators are grappling with how to protect FDIC- insured bank accounts from risks generated by investment-banking operations. Bank of America, which got a $45 billion bailout during the financial crisis, had $1.04 trillion in deposits as of midyear, ranking it second among U.S. firms.


“The concern is that there is always an enormous temptation to dump the losers on the insured institution,” said William Black, professor of economics and law at the University of Missouri-Kansas City and a former bank regulator. “We should have fairly tight restrictions on that.”


http://www.bloomberg...-bank-unit.html



And there is plently of blame on both sides of the house; then and now

[egghead]

Big banks are proof Socialism doesn't work!!!!!

These banks have a "created value" based on an "implicit bailout"-different than the value in a "free market" and whats worse government has basically rigged the game now so that the Big Banks can profit without creating value--and worse they profit from activities that weaken the economy by creating instability--

and what is our government doing --They just allowed Fannnie or Freddie to ensure loans up to $729,750---amazing

[xg21]

egghead, on October 24 2011 - 04:39 AM, said:

Big banks are proof Socialism doesn't work!!!!!

These banks have a "created value" based on an "implicit bailout"-different than the value in a "free market" and whats worse government has basically rigged the game now so that the Big Banks can profit without creating value--and worse they profit from activities that weaken the economy by creating instability--

The Bank bailouts proved Socialsm works.....at least for them.


Not sure how many of the 99% will be caught up in the following


Swiss Banks Said Ready to Reveal Tax Evaders


Swiss banks will probably settle a sweeping U.S. probe of offshore tax evasion by paying billions of dollars and handing over names of thousands of Americans who have secret accounts, according to two people familiar with the matter.

U.S. and Swiss officials are concluding negotiations on a civil settlement amid U.S. criminal probes of 11 financial institutions, including Credit Suisse Group AG (CSGN), suspected of helping American clients hide money from the Internal Revenue Service, according to five people with knowledge of the talks who declined to speak publicly because they are confidential.

Switzerland, the biggest haven for offshore wealth, wants an end to new U.S. probes while preserving its decades-old tradition of bank secrecy, the people said. The U.S. seeks data on Americans who have dodged U.S. taxes and a pledge by Swiss banks to stop helping such clients, according to the people. The Swiss reached accords this year with Germany and the U.K. on untaxed assets.


more
http://www.bloomberg...omer-names.html

[xg21]

unionbustersandtrollsout, on October 16 2011 - 07:26 PM, said:

Protests of the 99% ers all over the world.

Riots broke out in Rome

http://www.cnn.com/2...py-goes-global/

And if you were in Rome you would think riots broke out in the USA, albeit, one sided aggression against un-armed citizens doing their 'we the people' silly concept. Don't they realize the monied people don't respect the constitution.


It is a tremendous dishonor to America when the voices for the powerless are suppressed by the powerful – the top 1%. We are extremely alarmed by the increasing number of arrests of peaceful protestors across the country and call on elected leaders to stop ordering the police to make these arrests.The Occupy Wall Street movement has elevated the national conversation by shining overdue attention on the struggles of the 99% for whom the economy is broken. When people can’t raise their voices around pervasive inequality, there is a fundamental problem with how we’re functioning as a nation. Richard Trumka AFL-CIO



Police Turn Oakland Into War Zone


Incredible footage emerged from downtown Oakland last night - not of basic law enforcement efforts to maintain public "health and safety" as the police have been claiming - but of a war zone in which police shot tear gas, bean bags, wooden dowels, flash grenades, and rubber bullets at protesters.


watch


http://www.intheseti...PGhHiIUc.reddit




Bonus feature


Shamar Thomas - a Marine Corps veteran who attended the Occupy Times Square protest and confronted police officers for using excessive force on protesters - discuss what the Occupy movement means to him and the potential for other veterans to get involved

[dockman]

hmmmm it seems the protesters threw rocks and bottles

[xg21]

At least she was honest and admitted that some did throw stuff. She does have a point that excessive use was not required as the cops were in full protective gear.

Of course if the police hadn't shown up at all, to appease the corporate gods via the Mayor's office, then none of this would have happened.


Tents Return to Occupy Oakland

In a statement released last night Quan - who was booed away when she tried to speak directly to the crowd on Thursday - said she as "deeply saddened about the outcome on Tuesday."


Three days after it was shut down by hundreds of police in riot gear, over two dozen tents have returned to the main encampment site of Occupy Oakland:



http://www.cbsnews.c...e-occupy-plaza/

[dockman]

so they should have thrown rocks and bottles back and forth ?

failed socialism in europe brought down their economy ....fannie and freddy ,free trade and illegal immigration and out of control government spending is all contributing to our economic problems ...vote for obama if you want to stay the course