13 replies to this topic

[BeReal]

So what is happening in the Central Region? Zuckerman is campaigning for himself, trying to distance himself from Gegare/Slawson. Slawson who finished LAST among the regional VP nominees isn't doing a thing, hasn't contributed a penny to the campaign, and is resigned to retiring after the election. Slawson Jr's career may be over on numerous fronts, too bad as he had promise. Gegare scheduling a few futile meetings in the locals of his want-to-be slate member's, and still trying to act like he didn't know what he was getting paid $150,000 from the IBT for. Can you believe this guy would collect big bucks from the IBT and now act like he didn't know what was happening there? What he is doing is taking credit for anything good that came out of the IBT and trying to distance himself from all the hard decisions. What a hypocrite and a joke! Pope on the other had is trying to get the 705 members to believe her BS about how she can do something at the IBT when she has almost destroyed her own local union. Hoffa-Hall slate is not perfect by any means, but on the whole, they are far superior to either one of these clowns.

[848reformista]

BeReal, on July 30 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

So what is happening in the Central Region? Zuckerman is campaigning for himself, trying to distance himself from Gegare/Slawson. Slawson who finished LAST among the regional VP nominees isn't doing a thing, hasn't contributed a penny to the campaign, and is resigned to retiring after the election. Slawson Jr's career may be over on numerous fronts, too bad as he had promise. Gegare scheduling a few futile meetings in the locals of his want-to-be slate member's, and still trying to act like he didn't know what he was getting paid $150,000 from the IBT for. Can you believe this guy would collect big bucks from the IBT and now act like he didn't know what was happening there? What he is doing is taking credit for anything good that came out of the IBT and trying to distance himself from all the hard decisions. What a hypocrite and a joke! Pope on the other had is trying to get the 705 members to believe her BS about how she can do something at the IBT when she has almost destroyed her own local union. Hoffa-Hall slate is not perfect by any means, but on the whole, they are far superior to either one of these clowns.

BA REAL!! Are you for real?? Or are you not for real? Look, i understand the politics at play, i supported the Hoffster the last time around, but i will go totally 180 on this election. Let me give you just a handfull of reasons; 1. frieght is down to what... a handfull of unionized company's, is that progress? 2. Carehaul division is all but dessimated!! Even the Canadian carehaul division left the Teamsters!(good for them) is that progress? 3.Grocery... We have a third party grocery distribution co on the east coast totally wiping out union jobs, by converting warehouses into non union, and completly automated, with a fraction of the warehouse workers in employ!! The same technology is being put into practice on the west coast as we speak. it will forever change grocery and warehousing divisions. And what has been the Hoffsters reaction? Or non-action? ZIP ZILCH NADA!!! Is that progress? 4.Food distributors, Sysco, and US FOODSERVICE are dealing with thier issues. Sysco, puts ON-BOARD cameras inside the tractors. Now not only does daddy work in the office, but now daddy is riding with you all day WATCHING YOU!! Sysco just upped the case count that needs to be loaded on thier trucks. Load them up then write them up if they cant finish the run. US FOODS is putting into place work standards accross all of their warehouses. Claiming they arent standards rather they are expectations. HAHA ok and donkeys can fly. And the Hoffsters action??? NADA ZIP ZILCH!!! Is that progress?? 5. Coke deal... After Coke announced to the Union that they were going to divide the work between the UNIONIZED Coke employees and a third party NON-UNION facility Hoffster threatened to strike nationwide. In the end Coke did what they said they were goimg to do and the Hoffster hid in his closet all scared crying!! NO STRIKE, NO BALLS and he has lost all respect and thus has no power with the employers. Is this progress? And dont get me started with with the pension. And dont forget the pathetic record of organizing, they get all these new barns organized, but what they dont say is that almost all dont participate in the pension!!! WTF is up with that?? Being Teamster is ALL ABOUT THE PENSION!! Is this the future we want?? Look, if they are the most well suited for the job, then how do you explain these FACTS that i just stated? If this is the direction of the Teamsters then im sad to say that our once great union will dissappear soon. And im am sure that i there are 1000's of more reasons we need to roll the dice ith NEW LEADERSHIP!! Pope seems to be the only candidate i can Vote for. Gergare is a loudmouth who blames everyone else. If he felt like he said about the Hoffsters decission in regards to Central states Oension, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SCREAMING WHEN THE SHIT WENT DOWN!!! That tells me he is a weak man!! Check the record on the Hoffster before you vote for him again!!!

[IBBadDude]

848reformsta,

Almost every point you have laid out was Jim Santangellos responsibility up until a year and a half ago with the exception of freight and car haul. The IBT doesn't enforce contracts on the local level especially when the local exercises its autonomy and says leave us alone, Jim was famous for that. Points 3, 4 and 5 came right to his desk and he didn't do shit. As far as Coke the last round, the IBT and the JC President(Cammack) told THE LOCALS that there was full support and the LOCALS decided to not move and the members supported the LOCALS recommendation. The IBT and JC made it clear that they would support a strike, very clear.

In car haul a national project was put together and good ol Zuckerman killed it, stating he had better ideas that never came to fruition.

Freight don't get me started on this one about the past and how it could have been saved but Hoffa and Hall put together the organizing of UPS Freight and are committed to Fed Ex Freight as we speak. More Freight members have been organized in the last four years than in the prior 30. Now there is an open commitment to rebuild that industry that has been beat down by deregulation, high transportation costs and consolidations.

As far as your pension comment, workers organize for a voice on the job, respect and the right to fight for more at first. Some want it right away but the fact is most workers don't prioritize it. They build towards a pension after we educate them on the importance of one. Pension is important to US and unfortunately nonunion workers are so beat down when they organize they want a contract that gives them rights first. WE shouldn't shove it down their throat. In time they move towards a pension. The pension rules are written this way. You have time to bring them in because of the retroactivity of the plan. Being a teamster in not "all about the pension" sorry, it's a piece of it and our unions biggest gains historically were without the pension, that's a fact. The pension came later, then it was built on and you and I inherited it. It's about workers rights and fairness on the job. They gain pensions in time as they should.

Pension? Pope? Lol, now that is funny. Look at her record before you commit your vote. Educate yourself on how all of this ties together with facts and the right people taking responsibility for their actions. I think I responded to every point. Hopefully you are open to dialog so that you may change your mind and find that Hoffa and his team is the best for the job.

[Barking Dog]

BeReal, on July 30 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

So what is happening in the Central Region? Zuckerman is campaigning for himself, trying to distance himself from Gegare/Slawson. Slawson who finished LAST among the regional VP nominees isn't doing a thing, hasn't contributed a penny to the campaign, and is resigned to retiring after the election. Slawson Jr's career may be over on numerous fronts, too bad as he had promise. Gegare scheduling a few futile meetings in the locals of his want-to-be slate member's, and still trying to act like he didn't know what he was getting paid $150,000 from the IBT for. Can you believe this guy would collect big bucks from the IBT and now act like he didn't know what was happening there? What he is doing is taking credit for anything good that came out of the IBT and trying to distance himself from all the hard decisions. What a hypocrite and a joke! Pope on the other had is trying to get the 705 members to believe her BS about how she can do something at the IBT when she has almost destroyed her own local union. Hoffa-Hall slate is not perfect by any means, but on the whole, they are far superior to either one of these clowns.

local 705 is no longer in the Hoffa campaign colomn. local 89 never has been. JC 32 is not there either. All the Hoffa/Hall west vice presidents are elected and do not need to turn out the vote and do not need to pay there $125,000 to Hoffa and Hall in order to be on there ticket. Central states has canceled the 25/30 and out and instructed all locals to negioiate it out of there contracts. UPS was given the biggrest concession in the histroy of the union by Hoffa and Hall in exchange for card check at UPS frieght. (that is not organizng that is give aways) Hoffa and Hall are sell outs only concenrned with themselfs and not the membres. Frieght is on the ropes and all they can say is they have some grand plan to organzize FEDEX frieght. That won't happen becuase they had all there eggs in the employee free choice act that there politicaly endorsed democrats reversed on. Ask Bailey and Thompson how many candidate EFCA pledges thye have on file and what they plan to do to the politicans that backed out on it next election. This electoin is far from over.

[IBBadDude]

Hope is such a powerful emotion. Sorry Barking Dog but your facts are slightly off.

Because the Central States was falling apart UPS took a position to offer a far superior plan to the members. The 25 and out was not funded when it went thru like our PEER in the West They paid to withdrawal and it was very smart for Hall and Hoffa to negotiate what they did. Let's talk about what would have happened had they not moved out of Central States:

UPS would have given a last and final offer with there superior Pension plan in it and the members would have been forced to vote on it. It would have passed with no $6 billion buyout. Puff, gone, see ya, bye bye for free, or

We would have called a national strike over the Central States and taken a position the encourage members not to consider the companies superior plan. Wonder how the members nationaly would have responded? Wonder if the entire nation would have witnessed a national strike showcasing Gegares failure to run the Central States. It would have been all over the media and very hard to ignore the failures of Gegare and the geniuses that didn't deal with the 25 and out or the overall fund, or

In la la land UPS was going to pay every penny to keep the fund up, continue the liability, be held responsible as the largest contributor to the plan further arguing their position for pension reform and the elimination of multi employer pensions plans

Hmmmm, I like the option Hall and Hoffa took, it was a very difficult position and these are tough times. Instead our members that were involved in those negotiations ended up with contractural wage increases, pension increases, A new pension for some that was an improvement, 12,000 new members organized as well as hundreds of contract changes.

I love to fight but I don't think it's right to put everyone in harms way for a political propose, that's what is wrong with the politicians in this country.

[Gegare 2011]

IBBadDude, on July 31 2011 - 12:27 PM, said:

Hope is such a powerful emotion. Sorry Barking Dog but your facts are slightly off.

Because the Central States was falling apart UPS took a position to offer a far superior plan to the members. The 25 and out was not funded when it went thru like our PEER in the West They paid to withdrawal and it was very smart for Hall and Hoffa to negotiate what they did. Let's talk about what would have happened had they not moved out of Central States:

UPS would have given a last and final offer with there superior Pension plan in it and the members would have been forced to vote on it. It would have passed with no $6 billion buyout. Puff, gone, see ya, bye bye for free, or

We would have called a national strike over the Central States and taken a position the encourage members not to consider the companies superior plan. Wonder how the members nationaly would have responded? Wonder if the entire nation would have witnessed a national strike showcasing Gegares failure to run the Central States. It would have been all over the media and very hard to ignore the failures of Gegare and the geniuses that didn't deal with the 25 and out or the overall fund, or

In la la land UPS was going to pay every penny to keep the fund up, continue the liability, be held responsible as the largest contributor to the plan further arguing their position for pension reform and the elimination of multi employer pensions plans

Hmmmm, I like the option Hall and Hoffa took, it was a very difficult position and these are tough times. Instead our members that were involved in those negotiations ended up with contractural wage increases, pension increases, A new pension for some that was an improvement, 12,000 new members organized as well as hundreds of contract changes.


You continue to prove yourself to be a moron. Ups would have had to pay the withdrawal liability in any event. What Huffa and Hall did was fuck every other member in Central States by allowing UPS out of the fund. And don't say that stupid shit that Gegare let them out. Huffa and Hall met with Gegare at the Detroit airport with UPS management and told Gegare they were going to allow UPS out of the fund because UPS was going to put a DVD video out on Huffa. Gegare told them not to allow it. Why don't you ask Huffa and Hall about that meeting. And the UPS pension for these members is the worst pension of any of the funds including Central States. More Huffa lies. You won't win the election like that.

I love to fight but I don't think it's right to put everyone in harms way for a political propose, that's what is wrong with the politicians in this country.

[IBBadDude]

Moron, nice! Name calling is how we roll right. Well your candidates didn't answer any questions posed to them at the convention so I could think of some choice words for you guys too but I don't need to go there.

Gegare did let them out and the fund would have had to sue UPS to get their money, that would have taken a few years, you think? Oh, minus the money UPS put in where would the fund be? Hmmmmm, can you say defunkt at the hands of UPS and Gegare. That would make great headlines for our union, who's the moron?

I don't care where they told him and your lie is that the central states has a better benefit than the UPS plan, that is a fact! I hate it, I don't like to admit it but that transaction saved the fund. Do you think the battle would have had a better outcome?

So let's stop the name calling and talk facts. The great thing about our union is we can debate this after the fact because of strong leadership. Had Hoffa and Hall not done what they did Gegare would be plastered as the man that drove the fund into the ground and the UPS strike killed it. Don't think he would have ran for GP in that case, lol. See they saved your guys ass and he doesn't have the sense to see it. Check my logic, look at the numbers in the fund, take out what UPS put in and see where it would be while it was trying to capture it's withrawl liability in court. we all know UPS wouldn't have wrote that check freely.

[Barking Dog]

IBBadDude, on July 31 2011 - 12:27 PM, said:

We would have called a national strike over the Central States and taken a position the encourage members not to consider the companies superior plan. Wonder how the members nationaly would have responded? Wonder if the entire nation would have witnessed a national strike showcasing Gegares failure to run the Central States. It would have been all over the media and very hard to ignore the failures of Gegare and the geniuses that didn't deal with the 25 and out or the overall fund, or

remembre this during the next negtoiations when UPS comes after your western states pension. Hoffa and Hall did not tell the membres about there verbal agreement during negotitions with UPS that UPS would not come after any other mutli employrer pension fund for five years. Five years that all. So what do you think Hoffa and Hall will do next time around? Want to bet they cave to UPS again claiming the membres in the central and east would not strike over the concession? Hoffa and Hall are a disgrace and do not deserve to be elected. How can anyone defend the dismantling of the pension funds by union offcials? When UPS tightens up its pension accural rules by extending the hours required to earn credit past the amount of hours worked by part timers who will be able to stop that? the west is the last area where part timers are covered in the multi employer pension. Hoffa and Hall will concede this too and how many membres will lose out?

[Straight Shooter]

Obviously you don’t know a dam thing about pension funds. A union should do everything in its power to keep companies in our pension funds up to including a strike and continue to strike for as long as it takes.
IBBadDude don’t know what he is talking about but like all Hoffa supporters they think because they keep saying things that are not true that our members will believe it. I have news for all of you Hoffa supporters GEGARE wins in a landslide because of UPS and FRT and waste management and US foods and Kroger and super valu and all of the other companies HOFFA and HALL have screwed in the last 5 years.. The members will remember in November!

[IBBadDude]

You guys are right I don't know the difference or ramifications between a fund that is funded and one that is not, so stupid of me.

Look into the history of how multi employer plans have collapsed, very sad situations. Obviously we can agree to disagree.

Monday morning quarterbacking is what you call it.

[Rainman]

Barking Dog, on August 01 2011 - 04:05 AM, said:

remembre this during the next negtoiations when UPS comes after your western states pension. Hoffa and Hall did not tell the membres about there verbal agreement during negotitions with UPS that UPS would not come after any other mutli employrer pension fund for five years. Five years that all. So what do you think Hoffa and Hall will do next time around? Want to bet they cave to UPS again claiming the membres in the central and east would not strike over the concession? Hoffa and Hall are a disgrace and do not deserve to be elected. How can anyone defend the dismantling of the pension funds by union offcials? When UPS tightens up its pension accural rules by extending the hours required to earn credit past the amount of hours worked by part timers who will be able to stop that? the west is the last area where part timers are covered in the multi employer pension. Hoffa and Hall will concede this too and how many membres will lose out?

Maybe you should find a UPS contract and get someone to read it to you. UPS cannot even approach a Pension Fund or solicit members to withdraw or propose to withdraw from any Teamster Fund for 10 years. Its a signed agreement, not a verbal as you stated. You must have thought that 5 sounded better, so what the hell, you just claimed it as truth. Furthermore, if you knew anything about the UPS contract, you would know that the number of hours required for part-timers to earn pension credit is negotiated into the contract and cannot be changed in mid-contract. The better question is how did Gegare squander the 6+ Billion dollars they received from UPS. Ken Hall's Local Union Pension Fund is in the green zone and I believe they invest in the same stock market. Explain that. Then you can tell the 45,000 UPS members who are now in a 100% funded pension that they should go back to Central States at about 51% funded. Good luck with that one.

[scb]

Barking Dog, on August 01 2011 - 04:05 AM, said:

remembre this during the next negtoiations when UPS comes after your western states pension. Hoffa and Hall did not tell the membres about there verbal agreement during negotitions with UPS that UPS would not come after any other mutli employrer pension fund for five years. Five years that all. So what do you think Hoffa and Hall will do next time around? Want to bet they cave to UPS again claiming the membres in the central and east would not strike over the concession? Hoffa and Hall are a disgrace and do not deserve to be elected. How can anyone defend the dismantling of the pension funds by union offcials? When UPS tightens up its pension accural rules by extending the hours required to earn credit past the amount of hours worked by part timers who will be able to stop that? the west is the last area where part timers are covered in the multi employer pension. Hoffa and Hall will concede this too and how many membres will lose out?

-Barking Dog-

Seems like every Teamster that ever approaches the subject tends to forget what a bad deal it is for the part-timers in who's name contributions are handed over to the multi-employer funds. Damn few will see even a penny of those contributions returned....whereas, if they could be placed in some sort of 401K plan, they could follow the P/T'er as he follows his career chain.

Granted, I realize why Teamsters appreciate - and want - contributions being made in the names of P/T'ers, in that it represents yet another form of welfare; those who DIDN'T earn it receive benefit of the contributions of those who DID earn it...but will never receive it.

May be legal. May be in the contract. But the way the way the Teamsters treat their P/T members in that regard is pretty reprehensible.

-scb-

[Barking Dog]

scb, on August 08 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

-Barking Dog-

Seems like every Teamster that ever approaches the subject tends to forget what a bad deal it is for the part-timers in who's name contributions are handed over to the multi-employer funds. Damn few will see even a penny of those contributions returned....whereas, if they could be placed in some sort of 401K plan, they could follow the P/T'er as he follows his career chain.

Granted, I realize why Teamsters appreciate - and want - contributions being made in the names of P/T'ers, in that it represents yet another form of welfare; those who DIDN'T earn it receive benefit of the contributions of those who DID earn it...but will never receive it.

May be legal. May be in the contract. But the way the way the Teamsters treat their P/T members in that regard is pretty reprehensible.

-scb-

go out west and talk to some of the 20 plus yaer part timers that have a secure penison. The bad deal for the part timers is how UPS traets them and abuses them. Hall was the one that gave away part timers pensions contributions in the air agreemnent. Hall is the one that turns a blind eye to the 22.3 issue. Agreed the union has to do more for the part timers and Hoffa and Hall are not and will not do that. When has Hoffa or Hall negotaited a increase in the part time starting wage? What is really sad is that the federal miminum wage will soon catch the UPS starting wage for part timers and that is a disgrace that is layed at the feet of Hoffa and Hall. Hoffa has had over 13 years and Hall even longer to correct this but they haev not done it.

[scb]

Barking Dog, on August 08 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

go out west and talk to some of the 20 plus yaer part timers that have a secure penison. The bad deal for the part timers is how UPS traets them and abuses them. Hall was the one that gave away part timers pensions contributions in the air agreemnent. Hall is the one that turns a blind eye to the 22.3 issue. Agreed the union has to do more for the part timers and Hoffa and Hall are not and will not do that. When has Hoffa or Hall negotaited a increase in the part time starting wage? What is really sad is that the federal miminum wage will soon catch the UPS starting wage for part timers and that is a disgrace that is layed at the feet of Hoffa and Hall. Hoffa has had over 13 years and Hall even longer to correct this but they haev not done it.

-Barking Dog-

I've "gone out west"....and I've talked to the those who are representative of the 50 or 60 short-term P/T'ers who exist for each one of the "20 plus yaer [sic] part timers"...and who don't receive any pension at all. Nor do they receive a penny of the money that was deposited in THEIR name for hours THEY worked in the Teamster funds...money that could be disbursed upon termination of THEIR employment and used to fund THEIR retirement, instead of serving as a welfare subsidy to a chosen few. Think the Teamsters give their money back to them? Yeah....right!

As for how UPS "traets [sic] them", I think UPS "traets" them exactly as they had reason to expect that they'd be treated when they hired in. And any time they don't like how they've been treated, it seems that they're allowed to go elsewhere....a freedom which is represented in that fact that there are 50 or more short-term p/ter's than there are 20 year retirees (as a side note: I think I've made my position clear here over the years as to just how much "respect" I have for those who make a "career" of P/T work at UPS in the first place. In a word, it's not much).

The union has sold the p/t'ers down the river in two ways; first, by sacrificing their wages to benefit the full-timers. Secondly, by encouraging them to hang around year after year (at low ages) waiting for a full-time position at a time when they should be actively seeking a career...a CURRENT career. Then one wonders why, in the "RTW" states, such a small percentage of the P/T'ers maintain union membership. Big mystery that.

Think about it; as much as UPS is castigated, it seems to be the best that a Teamster can hope for....and they'll literally wait around for years to be subjected to MORE of what they decry as "crap"! Make sense to you?

As for who's to blame...well, from my perspective, it's systemic. Doesn't matter who the Teamster "leader" is; their impact will be the same. Due to the nature of the membership - a membership that keeps its head buried in the sand without once ever venturing to lift it up to take a look around at reality - any and all potential "leaders" of the union have to bend. They can't be honest and be elected. They can't serve in the best interests of the membership because the members themselves won't let them. They can't pass on more than the merest glimpse of the reality the union faces and maintain any hope of staying in office. The result? Well, exactly as can be seen; a union that has lost close to half it's card-caring members....and well OVER half of the members jobs in the organization's core industry. Hoffa, TDU, Pope, etc.....all the same. All they can do is make promises they can't deliver and tune themselves to the emotions of a rank 'n' file which is absolutely out of touch of the economic environment they're functioning it. Sad really.

Off pulpit now....

-scb-