155 replies to this topic

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 19 2010 - 03:53 PM, said:

Yeah - so hold on to that thought when every UPS Freight member and every NMFA freight member votes against your boy Hoffa. If you think Hoffa gets votes from these groups you are smoking crack. And the problem with Central States and all Teamster pension funds is Hoffa has not supported them. The funds don't organize and put members in the funds the IBT does stupid. And the IBT hasn't organized anyone and put them in the Teamster pension funds. Or maybe you don't know how it works.

It's clear you don't know how it works. The one thing you got right was that the funds don't organize. The Locals are supposed to not just the IBT. Local autonomy is how our union was built. Oh yeah we organized UPS Freight with the foresight of Hall. The IBT only negotiates the national agreements. I could have sworn that the negotiations are the locals responsibility. Man sounds like you want the IBT to do everything for a couple bucks per member when the local keeps most of the money. You don't want the IBT to tell you what to do but you want them to do everything then you blame them for it not going your way. I see why you want Gegare for GP.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Lando, on August 19 2010 - 08:29 PM, said:

It's clear you don't know how it works. The one thing you got right was that the funds don't organize. The Locals are supposed to not just the IBT. Local autonomy is how our union was built. Oh yeah we organized UPS Freight with the foresight of Hall. The IBT only negotiates the national agreements. I could have sworn that the negotiations are the locals responsibility. Man sounds like you want the IBT to do everything for a couple bucks per member when the local keeps most of the money. You don't want the IBT to tell you what to do but you want them to do everything then you blame them for it not going your way. I see why you want Gegare for GP.

Yes I do want the IBT to do everything they can to continue to support Teamsters and its more than a couple bucks a month. If you remember they raised members dues in 2002 ( Blue ribbon commission ) with some of that money going to organizing. Local Unions don't have the resources to organize regional or national companies and it just so happens our core industries fall into that category. The IBT also negotiates those contracts - Just like the UPS Freight disaster which they purposely kept out of the Teamsters pension plans. All Teamster pension plans require new participants to keep the plans viable. The reason all of the Teamster pension plans are in trouble is the IBT has failed to organize in core industries and put members in Teamster pension plans. So although you try to blame the Local Unions for this you are dead wrong. It is such a shame that the IBT is not doing anything to support Teamsters in all these Teamster pension funds who have worked their entire lives for a decent retirement and the IBT doesn't give a fuck about them. If they did they would organize in our core industries and support all the Teamster pension plans.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Lando, on August 19 2010 - 08:12 PM, said:

I will answer that question and I have been waiting for you to ask it. This is exactly my point, Jeff Farmer!! He wouldn't know our core industry if it ran him over. He thinks school buses and public sector are because he comes from SEIU. OH YEAH he is Keegels guy!! Oh oh and Gegare was a huge supporter of Farmer, until he decided to run lol. This is what I was saying when I told you that Hoffa listened to the people around him and now they take shots at him for doing what they asked. Talking shit about the IBT Organizing Department when Gagare and Company love Farmer is just as hypocritical as they are. I said we can point to some decisions Hoffa made as bad but you need to look at who influenced it. Bullseye!! Maybe they knew all along and it was a mass conspiracy to jump ship after purposely shooting holes in the bow.

By the way the Organizing Department doesn't negotiate the contracts(not to defend them) but it's a fact. So let's talk about organizing our core industries. Gegares website has a plan and it is a disgrace to organizing, no clue at all. Is Gegare and Slawson taking a position that they don't like Farmer? Tough question for them to answer when you know what happened and who supported who. Didn't Farmer come out of 120? I wonder how many project organizers were paid to work in 120 and I wonder how many they organized. Gee, I wonder how many projects Farmer funded for Gegare and Slawson? Maybe these questions are too long for you to follow and answer. Be careful at what you say because some of us know the real story and now that Gegare thinks he can be GP this stuff will float to the top.

It is outlandish for him to say what he is saying about what he created. And Hoffa wouldn't listen? He would get my vote if he actually admitted to what he influenced and took responsibility for it. No, he will blame it all on Hoffa.

So this poses a question. What will Hoffa do with Farmer? Would Gegare get rid of Farmer?

As much as some don't like Farmer and company they have put up some numbers. Should be much better but maybe Gegare knows how to organize better. With Gegare being a huge Farmer supporter and now talking shit about the Organizing Department it's a bit confusing for some of us to understand. I know, if he was in charge it would be different(sarcasm) Maybe Gagare should explain on his website HOW he plans on changing the Organizing. Brag about HIS successful organizing seeing that he is "one of the most powerful people in the teamsters" according to him.

Now Dump you ignored my posts once i responded to your twisted version of the truth. Just wondering if you can answer all these questions. Before you do please go back and read my posts because I may have pointed out the answer to your future questions and we are anticipating a ton of others.

Didn't mean to ignore you question but maybe we can agre on something. I agree Farmer has led the organizing department in the wrong direction. But Farmer doesn't work for Gegare - he works for Hoffa. Hoffa is the boss and the buck stops there. Why do you blame Gegare for all the bad shit going on at the IBT when Hoffa is the guy who runs it? Lets talk about school bus drivers a minute. Did you know that it cost us $2500 per school bus driver to organize and many of them don't pay dues and none of them are in any of the Teamster pension plans? So we spent a boatload of money which we will never get back and it didn't help any of our members in our core industries. So what will Hoffa do with Farmer? I don't know but the direction Hoffa has for organizing is wrong and needs to be changed. What will Gegare do with Farmer? Probably cut him loose and rebuild the organizing department to be of value to the membership. And I'm fully aware of who negotiates contracts.I never said the organizing department negotiates any contracts.

[theminister]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 20 2010 - 12:23 AM, said:

Didn't mean to ignore you question but maybe we can agre on something. I agree Farmer has led the organizing department in the wrong direction. But Farmer doesn't work for Gegare - he works for Hoffa. Hoffa is the boss and the buck stops there. Why do you blame Gegare for all the bad shit going on at the IBT when Hoffa is the guy who runs it? Lets talk about school bus drivers a minute. Did you know that it cost us $2500 per school bus driver to organize and many of them don't pay dues and none of them are in any of the Teamster pension plans? So we spent a boatload of money which we will never get back and it didn't help any of our members in our core industries. So what will Hoffa do with Farmer? I don't know but the direction Hoffa has for organizing is wrong and needs to be changed. What will Gegare do with Farmer? Probably cut him loose and rebuild the organizing department to be of value to the membership. And I'm fully aware of who negotiates contracts.I never said the organizing department negotiates any contracts.

Another lie. $2500 per school bus driver with 20,000 organized makes $50 million. I don't think so Einstein.

Farmer was hand picked by Keegel, not Hoffa, the same way that Keegel is responsible for the money at the IBT, not Hoffa. It is spelled out in black and white in the constitution. You Gegare idiots like to read the election rules by the letter, but not the constitution, funny how that works.

DumpHoffaNow said he was a member of Central States, but he exposed himself as an International employee (Brian Killdee to be exact) and that is the real shame. We have spent a boatload of money on this employee to smear our leaders better than any union busting lawyer.

[DumpHoffaNow]

theminister, on August 20 2010 - 03:37 AM, said:

Another lie. $2500 per school bus driver with 20,000 organized makes $50 million. I don't think so Einstein.

Farmer was hand picked by Keegel, not Hoffa, the same way that Keegel is responsible for the money at the IBT, not Hoffa. It is spelled out in black and white in the constitution. You Gegare idiots like to read the election rules by the letter, but not the constitution, funny how that works.

DumpHoffaNow said he was a member of Central States, but he exposed himself as an International employee (Brian Killdee to be exact) and that is the real shame. We have spent a boatload of money on this employee to smear our leaders better than any union busting lawyer.

$2500 - Check with members of the GEB or Farmer. 202-624-6800

So you going to start cutting on Keegel? Shame on you. Hoffa if the boss and makes the decisions and that is precisely why Keegel is leaving because Hoffa is leading the Union in the wrong direction. The IBT is broke but not because of Keegel. It is Hoffa's responsibility and another reason Keegel is leaving.

I am in Central States and I am not Brian Killdee so looks like you are wrong on about everything dummy.

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 20 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

Yes I do want the IBT to do everything they can to continue to support Teamsters and its more than a couple bucks a month. If you remember they raised members dues in 2002 ( Blue ribbon commission ) with some of that money going to organizing. Local Unions don't have the resources to organize regional or national companies and it just so happens our core industries fall into that category. The IBT also negotiates those contracts - Just like the UPS Freight disaster which they purposely kept out of the Teamsters pension plans. All Teamster pension plans require new participants to keep the plans viable. The reason all of the Teamster pension plans are in trouble is the IBT has failed to organize in core industries and put members in Teamster pension plans. So although you try to blame the Local Unions for this you are dead wrong. It is such a shame that the IBT is not doing anything to support Teamsters in all these Teamster pension funds who have worked their entire lives for a decent retirement and the IBT doesn't give a fuck about them. If they did they would organize in our core industries and support all the Teamster pension plans.

I know it's not two bucks however you know the vast majority of money stays at the Local level. I agree that the Organizing Department should have focused more on our core industries but my point is Farmer is Keegels guy and there should be no berate on that. The Blue Ribbon Commission moved more money to organizing and again look at who wanted Farmer and sold him to the GEB. I Think Keegel has been a great leader but to blame Hoffa for Farmer is just not sound.

UPS Freight was not a disaster and I hate to admit but the pension plan that UPS offered was a far superior benefit in the Central, about even in the West. Does that mean we push our members into the Central states even if they have an inferior benefit? Tough decision by Hall but when you break it down it makes sense. It's a first contract, yes it has problems but these members are in a much better position than they were before.

I am not blaming the locals for not organizing regionally but the Locals have a responsibility to organize. Remember that Blue Ribbon? Some of the raised dues money stayed at the local!!! Historically organizing in our core industries has been done by the locals with white paper contracts. Less than 35% of our members are in national contracts. Most are white paper in various core industries. Historically the backbone of our union was around us organizing certain industries at all levels.

The IBT does care about the pension plans. Every GEB member is in one, everyone on the payroll is in one, and most of the IBT staff, in leadership positions, is made up of local leaders that still work for their local.

Farmer didn't focus on our core industries but blaming Hoffa is a misdirection. Hoffa and Keegel ran this union and Gegare wants to criticize decisions he encouraged and influenced. I think not. He is a joke and his plan to fix what you care about is weak.

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 20 2010 - 12:23 AM, said:

Didn't mean to ignore you question but maybe we can agre on something. I agree Farmer has led the organizing department in the wrong direction. But Farmer doesn't work for Gegare - he works for Hoffa. Hoffa is the boss and the buck stops there. Why do you blame Gegare for all the bad shit going on at the IBT when Hoffa is the guy who runs it? Lets talk about school bus drivers a minute. Did you know that it cost us $2500 per school bus driver to organize and many of them don't pay dues and none of them are in any of the Teamster pension plans? So we spent a boatload of money which we will never get back and it didn't help any of our members in our core industries. So what will Hoffa do with Farmer? I don't know but the direction Hoffa has for organizing is wrong and needs to be changed. What will Gegare do with Farmer? Probably cut him loose and rebuild the organizing department to be of value to the membership. And I'm fully aware of who negotiates contracts.I never said the organizing department negotiates any contracts.

Looks like we can agree on a couple of things. Farmer doesn't work for Gegare but he worked for Keegel and Gegare was a huge supporter of Farmer. Blame Hoffa now? Gegare and others told the members to support Hoffa because members had a concern with his past saying that Hoffa has a great team around him and he will listen to us. This is my point on the head. Hoffa did listen and made the appointments that most of them asked for. Now he wants to take shots at the very decisions he was a part of. It's crazy for Gegare to beat up on the organizing department he loves those guys.

School bus? I agree another mistake to be a focus but once again Gegare was a supporter of that plan when it was presented. There is not a lot of love for the Farm Team but most went easy on them because they were Keegels guys. Unfortunately NO ONE has figured out the organizing question and that's why we have had the problems we have had for 30 years. Hoffa is the first GP to be serious about organizing since his father.

Many are hoping with Keegels unfortunate departure that Farmer goes with him back to Minnesota. Once again, Gegares platform is very shaky and he has responsibility to accept in some of these problems he helped to create over the last 12 years. Maybe that's why he doesn't have support.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Lando, on August 20 2010 - 07:01 AM, said:

I know it's not two bucks however you know the vast majority of money stays at the Local level. I agree that the Organizing Department should have focused more on our core industries but my point is Farmer is Keegels guy and there should be no berate on that. The Blue Ribbon Commission moved more money to organizing and again look at who wanted Farmer and sold him to the GEB. I Think Keegel has been a great leader but to blame Hoffa for Farmer is just not sound.

UPS Freight was not a disaster and I hate to admit but the pension plan that UPS offered was a far superior benefit in the Central, about even in the West. Does that mean we push our members into the Central states even if they have an inferior benefit? Tough decision by Hall but when you break it down it makes sense. It's a first contract, yes it has problems but these members are in a much better position than they were before.

I am not blaming the locals for not organizing regionally but the Locals have a responsibility to organize. Remember that Blue Ribbon? Some of the raised dues money stayed at the local!!! Historically organizing in our core industries has been done by the locals with white paper contracts. Less than 35% of our members are in national contracts. Most are white paper in various core industries. Historically the backbone of our union was around us organizing certain industries at all levels.

The IBT does care about the pension plans. Every GEB member is in one, everyone on the payroll is in one, and most of the IBT staff, in leadership positions, is made up of local leaders that still work for their local.

Farmer didn't focus on our core industries but blaming Hoffa is a misdirection. Hoffa and Keegel ran this union and Gegare wants to criticize decisions he encouraged and influenced. I think not. He is a joke and his plan to fix what you care about is weak.

Hoffa is the boss and the buck stops there. Farmer works for Hoffa not Keegel. Hoffa sets policy and he has no policy for organizing in core industries. Can't blame Keegel or Farmer for that. Hoffa needs to direct the organizing department like any boss would do but has failed miserably.

UPS Freight is a complete disaster. Here we have a contract where scabs are doing our work while our members are laid off or reduced in classification and loading the trucks the scabs are driving out of there. Are you fucking kidding me? We negotiated a freight agreement that protects the scabs while Teamsters are sitting at the house. Come on even you can't agree with that. As for your comment about the UPS pension plan it is far inferior than any of the Teamster plans and will get worse and by not putting them in the plans it weakens them and does not support our members.

The IBT doesn't care any about Teamster pension plans. They have done nothing to support the plans. Even the TAPP plan Hoffa won't make contributions to and that in itself will bankrupt the union.

So here's the deal. Hoffa has fucked up the union. We are at a point where we can't stand 5 more years of weakness and division in this union. I think we agree we need a new direction in our union. I don't like Hoffa and you don't like Gegare. You pick someone who will get us out of this mess Hoffa has gotten us into and we'll talk about that person.

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 20 2010 - 09:49 AM, said:

Hoffa is the boss and the buck stops there. Farmer works for Hoffa not Keegel. Hoffa sets policy and he has no policy for organizing in core industries. Can't blame Keegel or Farmer for that. Hoffa needs to direct the organizing department like any boss would do but has failed miserably.

UPS Freight is a complete disaster. Here we have a contract where scabs are doing our work while our members are laid off or reduced in classification and loading the trucks the scabs are driving out of there. Are you fucking kidding me? We negotiated a freight agreement that protects the scabs while Teamsters are sitting at the house. Come on even you can't agree with that. As for your comment about the UPS pension plan it is far inferior than any of the Teamster plans and will get worse and by not putting them in the plans it weakens them and does not support our members.

The IBT doesn't care any about Teamster pension plans. They have done nothing to support the plans. Even the TAPP plan Hoffa won't make contributions to and that in itself will bankrupt the union.

So here's the deal. Hoffa has fucked up the union. We are at a point where we can't stand 5 more years of weakness and division in this union. I think we agree we need a new direction in our union. I don't like Hoffa and you don't like Gegare. You pick someone who will get us out of this mess Hoffa has gotten us into and we'll talk about that person.

See this is a good debate without name calling. This is what our union was built on. I do blame Farmer for the lack of organizing in our core industries along with his supporters. They have convinced some that what he has been doing with these numbers are acceptable and we agree that they are not. My point about the locals is that they are not committing yet blaming the IBT. Everyone needs to step up organizing not just Hoffa. People talk about it but don't so I have a hard time blaming all of it on Hoffa.

UPS Freight is not a complete disaster, it isn't a disaster at all. Tearing down the fact that these workers have improved their lives significantly isn't a disaster. The subcontracting issue sucks and I agree that it shouldn't happen that way and that's what the grievance procedure and future negotiations will remedy. Discounting all the other positives for these workers is short sighted. Organizing them and improving over the years is what's important. Too many times we didn't organize a freight company because it had to be Master Freight and as a result the industry has slipped away. We are famous for getting something and then picking it apart and convincing ourselves we shouldn't have done it. Self destruction when you have the best. The members of UPS Freight ratified their contract by a huge margin because they saw the long term benefits of a contract. Quit beating them up the issues will work themselves out over time because they have a contract. Rome wasn't built overnight and their contract will progress like all others have shown to.

The organizing department has targeted core industries in the past however, guys like Farmer, Gegare, Keegel, Slawson helped kill the plans because of who was or wasn't in charge. Farmer has manipulated these people into believing his bullshit using these guys as support for HIS program. I would suspect the clock is ticking down on him.
Gegare talking shit about Farmer and the organizing is crazy because he was their biggest defender when some were attacking Farmer. Enough about the Farm Team.

Hoffa didn't fuck up our union and it's not fucked up now. We are going through a very difficult time and everyone has work to do. Clearly their are problems and those problems have ran deep for generations. Hoffa has put our union back on the map and cleaned it up according to Gegare. He unified our union again, he had a clear vision of rebuilding it according to Gegare. We all listen to Gegare for the last 15 years talk about how great Hoffa was(and himself) until now. Was he lying then or now or both. Anyway you look at it it doesn't work.

It's time for lots of people to retire and let the next generation but why would they do that?

[DumpHoffaNow]

Lando, on August 20 2010 - 07:28 PM, said:

See this is a good debate without name calling. This is what our union was built on. I do blame Farmer for the lack of organizing in our core industries along with his supporters. They have convinced some that what he has been doing with these numbers are acceptable and we agree that they are not. My point about the locals is that they are not committing yet blaming the IBT. Everyone needs to step up organizing not just Hoffa. People talk about it but don't so I have a hard time blaming all of it on Hoffa.

UPS Freight is not a complete disaster, it isn't a disaster at all. Tearing down the fact that these workers have improved their lives significantly isn't a disaster. The subcontracting issue sucks and I agree that it shouldn't happen that way and that's what the grievance procedure and future negotiations will remedy. Discounting all the other positives for these workers is short sighted. Organizing them and improving over the years is what's important. Too many times we didn't organize a freight company because it had to be Master Freight and as a result the industry has slipped away. We are famous for getting something and then picking it apart and convincing ourselves we shouldn't have done it. Self destruction when you have the best. The members of UPS Freight ratified their contract by a huge margin because they saw the long term benefits of a contract. Quit beating them up the issues will work themselves out over time because they have a contract. Rome wasn't built overnight and their contract will progress like all others have shown to.

The organizing department has targeted core industries in the past however, guys like Farmer, Gegare, Keegel, Slawson helped kill the plans because of who was or wasn't in charge. Farmer has manipulated these people into believing his bullshit using these guys as support for HIS program. I would suspect the clock is ticking down on him.
Gegare talking shit about Farmer and the organizing is crazy because he was their biggest defender when some were attacking Farmer. Enough about the Farm Team.

Hoffa didn't fuck up our union and it's not fucked up now. We are going through a very difficult time and everyone has work to do. Clearly their are problems and those problems have ran deep for generations. Hoffa has put our union back on the map and cleaned it up according to Gegare. He unified our union again, he had a clear vision of rebuilding it according to Gegare. We all listen to Gegare for the last 15 years talk about how great Hoffa was(and himself) until now. Was he lying then or now or both. Anyway you look at it it doesn't work.

It's time for lots of people to retire and let the next generation but why would they do that?

Well I appreciate the conversation but must disagree.

Hoffa must take responsibility for the failures at the IBT. Farmer is not organizing in core industries but Hoffa controls that. Hoffa is the boss and he controls and directs the organizing department. There is no getting around that. Hoffa just does not understand the importance of organizing to support our core industries or pension funds. If he did he would have been doing that for the last 12 years.

UPS Freight is a complete disaster and obviously you don't talk to or represent these members. They say they were all better off without the Teamsters and will vote against Hoffa and Hall.

Funny you blame Farmer, Keegel, Gegare, and Slawson for the lack of organizing. Hoffa, Hall, Murphy, Deaner, Thompson, and Smith are making the decisions up there. That's why things are so fucked up and that's why they left.

And if you don't think the IBT is fucked up I don't know what more to say. You are right that folks should move on. We have given Hoffa 12 years and the union today is worse off than it was and continues to get worse. I will not stand for that and allow him another 5 years to tear down our union. Hoffa is 69 years old, he is a millionaire, and he needs to move on so a younger, more energetic group of leaders takes control and strenghtens our union.

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 21 2010 - 06:48 AM, said:

Well I appreciate the conversation but must disagree.

Hoffa must take responsibility for the failures at the IBT. Farmer is not organizing in core industries but Hoffa controls that. Hoffa is the boss and he controls and directs the organizing department. There is no getting around that. Hoffa just does not understand the importance of organizing to support our core industries or pension funds. If he did he would have been doing that for the last 12 years.

UPS Freight is a complete disaster and obviously you don't talk to or represent these members. They say they were all better off without the Teamsters and will vote against Hoffa and Hall.

Funny you blame Farmer, Keegel, Gegare, and Slawson for the lack of organizing. Hoffa, Hall, Murphy, Deaner, Thompson, and Smith are making the decisions up there. That's why things are so fucked up and that's why they left.

And if you don't think the IBT is fucked up I don't know what more to say. You are right that folks should move on. We have given Hoffa 12 years and the union today is worse off than it was and continues to get worse. I will not stand for that and allow him another 5 years to tear down our union. Hoffa is 69 years old, he is a millionaire, and he needs to move on so a younger, more energetic group of leaders takes control and strenghtens our union.

Gegare doesn't fit what both of us has described as what is needed as a matter of fact he will make things far worse than they are today. He clearly helped create these issues that he now blames Hoffa for and he in no way will be the young energetic leadership to take control. He is far worse than Hoffa and I couldn't imagine him as GP and how his over inflated ego would tear apart what he could never build himself.

UPS Freight members are not worse off than before. Obviously you have convinced UPS Freight members that they are worse off and shame on anyone who hasn't educated these new members on how they will build their contract over time. What would be happening to these members if they weren't organized? UPS would have treated them like all their other non union operations. They are far better off and anyone that buys into that TDU bullshit needs pull their head out of their ass. How dare anyone try to convince these workers they were better off!!!!! That's the problem with Gegare and company and anyone that says that is promoting non union sentiment. Disgusting!!!! Yes I represent, talk to and educate these hard working members. Anyone that has their head so far up their own ass that we blame anyone for the fact that these workers ORGANIZED!!! Stupid for sure, NMFA in the first contract? Come on!!!!! Outrageous for anyone to capitalize on this for political reasons and use these workers like that. Had THE WORKERS organized decades ago it wouldn't be a problem and they have to start somewhere. NMFA was built over many years of hard work and everyone who helped that is long gone. The last 30 years of NMFA was inherited from a generation that did all the work for it.

This is the problem with Gegare and company!! Convincing people our union is falling apart when he is part of the problem. He needs to move on and he's not. You can say the same about Hoffa but he's not going anywhere. So now you look at your choice and Gegare is a joke!!! These are the two candidates so far and Hoffa is the far better choice.

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 21 2010 - 06:48 AM, said:

Well I appreciate the conversation but must disagree.

Hoffa must take responsibility for the failures at the IBT. Farmer is not organizing in core industries but Hoffa controls that. Hoffa is the boss and he controls and directs the organizing department. There is no getting around that. Hoffa just does not understand the importance of organizing to support our core industries or pension funds. If he did he would have been doing that for the last 12 years.

UPS Freight is a complete disaster and obviously you don't talk to or represent these members. They say they were all better off without the Teamsters and will vote against Hoffa and Hall.

Funny you blame Farmer, Keegel, Gegare, and Slawson for the lack of organizing. Hoffa, Hall, Murphy, Deaner, Thompson, and Smith are making the decisions up there. That's why things are so fucked up and that's why they left.

And if you don't think the IBT is fucked up I don't know what more to say. You are right that folks should move on. We have given Hoffa 12 years and the union today is worse off than it was and continues to get worse. I will not stand for that and allow him another 5 years to tear down our union. Hoffa is 69 years old, he is a millionaire, and he needs to move on so a younger, more energetic group of leaders takes control and strenghtens our union.

You say Hoffa didn't organize in our core industries and you bash the UPS Freight organizing victory. Hall and Hoffa organized the largest victory (12,000) in Freight in decades. But no let's sit back and tell these members they got fucked!!! Shame on anyone that does that. The Farm Team sucks and that is Keegels boy. Hall pulled off UPS Freight and he is now running for General S/T. The biggest victory in Freight since his father and people are trying to destroy that. Pathetic twist on the truth when someone says we are all fucked up. You talk shit about not organizing core industries and then you tear it down when it is done. Sounds like Gegare blow hard bullshit. This is what is wrong with our union!!!! People destroy what they didn't do because of their ego.

[Barking Dog]

[quote name='Lando' date='August 22 2010 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1282506736' post='281985']
You say Hoffa didn't organize in our core industries and you bash the UPS Freight organizing victory. Hall and Hoffa organized the largest victory (12,000) in Freight in decades. But no let's sit back and tell these members they got fucked!!! Shame on anyone that does that. The Farm Team sucks and that is Keegels boy. Hall pulled off UPS Freight and he is now running for General S/T. The biggest victory in Freight since his father and people are trying to destroy that. Pathetic twist on the truth when someone says we are all fucked up. You talk shit about not organizing core industries and then you tear it down when it is done. Sounds like Gegare blow hard bullshit. This is what is wrong with our union!!!! People destroy what they didn't do because of their ego.
[/quote

all Hoffa nad Hall had to do is give UPS teh biggest concessionarary contract in the hostory of the union just to get card check at UPS frieght. They let UPS out of the central states pension fund and did not allow UPS frieght to be put into the frieght division or allow UPS frieght memebrs to be covered under any pension fund except the companny controlled plan. That is the biggest give away ever from the union and you aer right Hoffa and Hall did it. Now they are runing for office and that is a joke. Next negotaitions for the west will include UPS gettting out of that plan too. Then what will Hoffa and Hall do? UPS Friehg was not a organizing victory is was the result of bad negotaiations and give aways from Hoffa and Hall.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Lando, on August 22 2010 - 11:52 AM, said:

You say Hoffa didn't organize in our core industries and you bash the UPS Freight organizing victory. Hall and Hoffa organized the largest victory (12,000) in Freight in decades. But no let's sit back and tell these members they got fucked!!! Shame on anyone that does that. The Farm Team sucks and that is Keegels boy. Hall pulled off UPS Freight and he is now running for General S/T. The biggest victory in Freight since his father and people are trying to destroy that. Pathetic twist on the truth when someone says we are all fucked up. You talk shit about not organizing core industries and then you tear it down when it is done. Sounds like Gegare blow hard bullshit. This is what is wrong with our union!!!! People destroy what they didn't do because of their ego.

God help UPS and UPS Freight members if Hoffa and Hall negotiate the 2013 contract. Not hard to organize anyone if you give them a bullshit contract that fucks everyone from the UPS'ers to our NMFA Freight members to our Teamster pension fund participants. And stop blaming everyone else because Hoffa has fucked up the Union. Hoffa is the Boss and the buck stops there. Why is it everyone else's fault?

[Rome/Hoffa2011]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 22 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

God help UPS and UPS Freight members if Hoffa and Hall negotiate the 2013 contract. Not hard to organize anyone if you give them a bullshit contract that fucks everyone from the UPS'ers to our NMFA Freight members to our Teamster pension fund participants. And stop blaming everyone else because Hoffa has fucked up the Union. Hoffa is the Boss and the buck stops there. Why is it everyone else's fault?

Stop blaming everyone else because Gegare has fucked up the Central States Pension Fund. Gegare is the head trustee for the union and the buck stops there. As a fund trustee he voted to allow UPS to exit the fund and oversaw the loss of the entire $6 billion in less than 2 years by gambling everything at the height of the market. Why is it everyone else's fault?

[DumpHoffaNow]

Rome/Hoffa2011, on August 22 2010 - 05:33 PM, said:

Stop blaming everyone else because Gegare has fucked up the Central States Pension Fund. Gegare is the head trustee for the union and the buck stops there. As a fund trustee he voted to allow UPS to exit the fund and oversaw the loss of the entire $6 billion in less than 2 years by gambling everything at the height of the market. Why is it everyone else's fault?

You have said that bullshit so many times I thinlk you are starting to believe it. Everyone else knows better. Gegare didn't vote to let UPS out Hoffa and Hall took them out in contract negotiations. You know that.

[Rome/Hoffa2011]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 22 2010 - 10:02 PM, said:

You have said that bullshit so many times I thinlk you are starting to believe it. Everyone else knows better. Gegare didn't vote to let UPS out Hoffa and Hall took them out in contract negotiations. You know that.

Its a FACT that as a fund trustee, Fred Gegare voted to allow UPS to exit the Central States Pension Fund. It is also a fact that the Central States fund reported $17.3 billion in pension assets at the end of 2008, down from $26.8 billion a year earlier. That is a 9.5 BILLION DOLLAR LOSS. And you fucking clowns are bellyaching about Hoffa taking a 14 million dollar loss by being conservative and going to cash in a down market. EVERYONE ELSE I KNOW WOULD RATHER HAVE SOMEONE CONSERVATIVE HANDLE THEIR MONEY THAN A DRUNK LIKE GEGARE WHO GAMBLES EVERYTHING AT THE HEIGHT OF THE MARKET AND LOSES. You are the one full of shit and EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

By the way, on Fred Gegare's website he mentions Teamsters who are "Tony Soprano Wannabes". What Italian-American Teamsters is he refering to? All of them? I find that kind of remark offensive, but Fred has a history of saying those kind of things when he's drunk.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Rome/Hoffa2011, on August 23 2010 - 03:44 AM, said:

Its a FACT that as a fund trustee, Fred Gegare voted to allow UPS to exit the Central States Pension Fund. It is also a fact that the Central States fund reported $17.3 billion in pension assets at the end of 2008, down from $26.8 billion a year earlier. That is a 9.5 BILLION DOLLAR LOSS. And you fucking clowns are bellyaching about Hoffa taking a 14 million dollar loss by being conservative and going to cash in a down market. EVERYONE ELSE I KNOW WOULD RATHER HAVE SOMEONE CONSERVATIVE HANDLE THEIR MONEY THAN A DRUNK LIKE GEGARE WHO GAMBLES EVERYTHING AT THE HEIGHT OF THE MARKET AND LOSES. You are the one full of shit and EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

By the way, on Fred Gegare's website he mentions Teamsters who are "Tony Soprano Wannabes". What Italian-American Teamsters is he refering to? All of them? I find that kind of remark offensive, but Fred has a history of saying those kind of things when he's drunk.

You are a dope. Gegare NEVER voted to let UPS exit the Central States Pension Fund. You say it is a FACT so here is your chance to prove it dumbass. When was this alleged vote? Prove this fact or shut the fuck up.

As for the Tony Soprano comment I guess you can't read and understand things. The website exposes Hoffa for blocking Stier's investigations into organized crime and corruption in the union to the point that Stier quit in disgust stating that Hoffa was not interested in cleaning up the union. All that is public information ---- really hard to argue with that shit ain't it?

[Mewing Cat]

Dump:

What do you do get to your desk in the morning and start posting?

Are you still claiming to be a member or did you finally cop to being a employee of the International?

As far as knocking Rome in that other post, cut it out. Members respect him because he tries to do right. Maybe people could respect you if you stopped knocking everybody and started trying to do things right.

[Rome/Hoffa2011]

DumpHoffaNow, on August 23 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

You are a dope. Gegare NEVER voted to let UPS exit the Central States Pension Fund. You say it is a FACT so here is your chance to prove it dumbass. When was this alleged vote? Prove this fact or shut the fuck up.

As for the Tony Soprano comment I guess you can't read and understand things. The website exposes Hoffa for blocking Stier's investigations into organized crime and corruption in the union to the point that Stier quit in disgust stating that Hoffa was not interested in cleaning up the union. All that is public information ---- really hard to argue with that shit ain't it?

Central States negotiated the withdrawal directly with UPS. Other than the fund trustees, there were no Teamsters involved in those negotiations, just UPS and Central States. It took 2 months of negotiations to come to an agreement. Once the agreement was reached, all fund trustees--union and employer--had to vote to approve the agreement for UPS to be allowed to exit. Gegare voted to approve the agreement. If the fund trustees didn't approve the agreement, there would have been a court battle which there wasn't. I understand that Gegare was probably drunk and doesn't remember much so you need me to document it so that he can remember this stuff which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. As member of the GEB, Gegare and Slawson also voted to approve the YRC concessions. Are you denying that too? I understand that you guys were both pretty hung over when that vote was taken as well so I understand your lapse of memory.

As far as the RISE program goes, I'm kind of surprised that Gegare has that up on his website. That is straight TDU crap. Gegare knows as well as anyone that when it was clear that the IRB wasn't going to leave even after Stier came out with his report saying that "no union has done more to rid itself of corruption than the Teamsters under Jim Hoffa" that our union couldn't continue to pay $10 million to the IRB and $6 million to RISE per year. Hoffa told this to Stier and he threw a fit and said the Teamsters were standing in his way. If that were true, why is it that when we turned over all Stier's reports and findings and documents to the IRB and federal prosecutors that no charges were ever filed against anybody? Why was nobody ever charged if our union is so dirty as you allege? Prove that I'm wrong about that or shut the fuck up you TDU piece of shit.

You might think its cute cutting down our union and calling it corrupt and full of "Tony Soprano wannabes" but most REAL Teamsters don't. So why don't you go find your buttboy Stier and go have a circle jerk somewhere with the rest of your pathetic slate.