155 replies to this topic

[coastal]

brother teamsters, some advice here. Nothing really to do with the above postings about either slate side. But when you mention the IRB, be careful when you do so. If you have been around long enough, be careful in your word choices and when mentioning the IRB. When there is a serious violation the IRB might catch or informed about then they will be on it, (good right?)however, those that might might tip off the IRB, or even in public forums in freedom of speech in small violations or(talking freely about whatever topics) what have you?--then even those that felt they did the right thing by reporting, mentioning or informing any said violations for example or whatever the topic is, can end up being banned and I'd hate to see good teamsters banned for not understanding why certain topics not discussed when you do want answers.

So when your wanting answers to questions from either slate, some topics they just cannot discuss on a public forum. It does not mean they are refusing to want to speak out, or trying to conceal or hide information,NO, but many teamsters that have been around just know better than to speak about certain topics on public forums with internal matters.

[RealTeam]

coastal, on September 08 2010 - 11:52 PM, said:

brother teamsters, some advice here. Nothing really to do with the above postings about either slate side. But when you mention the IRB, be careful when you do so. If you have been around long enough, be careful in your word choices and when mentioning the IRB. When there is a serious violation the IRB might catch or informed about then they will be on it, (good right?)however, those that might might tip off the IRB, or even in public forums in freedom of speech in small violations or(talking freely about whatever topics) what have you?--then even those that felt they did the right thing by reporting, mentioning or informing any said violations for example or whatever the topic is, can end up being banned and I'd hate to see good teamsters banned for not understanding why certain topics not discussed when you do want answers.

So when your wanting answers to questions from either slate, some topics they just cannot discuss on a public forum. It does not mean they are refusing to want to speak out, or trying to conceal or hide information,NO, but many teamsters that have been around just know better than to speak about certain topics on public forums with internal matters.

The stuff about Gegare avoiding an IRB ban is old news. If I recall correctly it was Ms. Purple Barking Dog who first brought it up-- claiming Gegare avoided the IRB charges for letting UPS out of the Central States Pension Fund. It has been posted in many threads here on T Net, multiple times. Now all of the sudden Ms. Purple is a Gegare supporter. Go figure. I guess two faced mfers attract each other...

Now these Gegare backstabbing traitors want to trash a good Teamster (Bill Moore) who has been one of the most loyal friends these treacherous, backstabbing, turncoat traitors have ever had the good fortune to have.

Fuck them. They are the ones who keep bringing bullshit like this up, and turnabout is fair play.

While I think your post was made with the best of intentions, I still say: FUCK 'EM ALL!!

They are a bunch of backstabbing, turncoat, traitors like the dim-witted woman who lived in the shoe, unable to distinguish their enemies from their friends.So again I say: FUCK 'EM ALL!

[Lando]

Once again I dont hear any plan from Gegare!! He has no idea how to lead us into the future.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Lando, on September 14 2010 - 07:35 AM, said:

Once again I dont hear any plan from Gegare!! He has no idea how to lead us into the future.

Not much sense in continuing debate on the issues with you Hoffa assholes. Hoffa has fucked up the Union and all you want to do is blame Gegare for all that shit which is idiotic.

[yougottabekiddin]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 14 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

Not much sense in continuing debate on the issues with you Hoffa assholes. Hoffa has fucked up the Union and all you want to do is blame Gegare for all that shit which is idiotic.

So thats it? You guys quit? NICE!!!! And all it took was a counter argument to your bullshit. You just couldn't stand anyone telling you that Gegare was part of the "problem" that you guys are complaining about. I for one feel like General President Hoffa has done a pretty remarkable job considering the circumstances he has faced. However, you have a right to disagree. BUT...if you do disagree, make sure that your candidate can accept his part of the "blame" for your perceived deficiencies. He has been on the GEB for the whole ride, and never once complained about how things were going. He NOMINATED Hoffa at the convention. NOW he wants to break from the fold and run on his own? C'mon, he is simply trying to take advantage of the difficulties that this Union has faced for the last 10 years. The Union IS weaker now. The Union probably HAS lost members. We have fought to just MAINTAIN what we HAVE. What Union HASN'T?! But Gegare sees an opportunity to seize the Union leadership in a time of great difficulty. We see through that champ. And while I think it's a pretty shitty move on his part, that isn't even the reason he can't garner any support. The real reason is he just doesn't have the intellect or the people skills to be GP. He is vulgar, obnoxious and not all that bright. But he IS a lot of fun to hang around with at the bar!

[DumpHoffaNow]

yougottabekiddin, on September 14 2010 - 07:17 PM, said:

So thats it? You guys quit? NICE!!!! And all it took was a counter argument to your bullshit. You just couldn't stand anyone telling you that Gegare was part of the "problem" that you guys are complaining about. I for one feel like General President Hoffa has done a pretty remarkable job considering the circumstances he has faced. However, you have a right to disagree. BUT...if you do disagree, make sure that your candidate can accept his part of the "blame" for your perceived deficiencies. He has been on the GEB for the whole ride, and never once complained about how things were going. He NOMINATED Hoffa at the convention. NOW he wants to break from the fold and run on his own? C'mon, he is simply trying to take advantage of the difficulties that this Union has faced for the last 10 years. The Union IS weaker now. The Union probably HAS lost members. We have fought to just MAINTAIN what we HAVE. What Union HASN'T?! But Gegare sees an opportunity to seize the Union leadership in a time of great difficulty. We see through that champ. And while I think it's a pretty shitty move on his part, that isn't even the reason he can't garner any support. The real reason is he just doesn't have the intellect or the people skills to be GP. He is vulgar, obnoxious and not all that bright. But he IS a lot of fun to hang around with at the bar!

I'm never going to quit I'm just going to quit talking to you and the rest of the Hoffa assholes who refuse to debate the issues. There were no counter arguments, it always ended up blaming Gegare for Hoffa's fuck ups. You are right that the Union is weaker now than in the past. But that's Hoffa's fault because we elected Hoffa to lead us and he has failed to do that. You are right the we have lost members but that is Hoffa's fault because we elected him to make our union stronger and he has failed to do that. Fact is we elected Hoffa to make our union financially strong and Hoffa has led us to financial collapse even after the biggest dues increase ever. Fact is Hoffa has done nothing to lead the organizing department to organize our core industries which is the lifeblood of our union. Those are facts and the next post will be a Hoffa asshole blaming Gegare for all that shit. So there is really not much sense continuing to talk to idiots.

[yougottabekiddin]

Umm...so Dump, what you're saying is that Hoffa has failed the membership because he hasn't added members and increased the treasury? Under those standards, you fucking moron, there wouldn't be a damn Local Union in the country that would retain their leadership. And there wouldn't be a damn INTERNATIONAL Union that would retain their leadership either. Would you want to court martial the captain of every ship that sank at Pearl Harbor too? Face it scumbag, our International Union is pretty healthy considering the economic collapse that affected us on not just a national level but a global one as well. Hoffa has had to navigate some pretty turbulant water. I won't blame Gegare for anything other than trying to take advantage of dire times and stabbing people in the back while trying to seize control. He was happy as a clam...he NOMINATED Hoffa...he served as Director of the Dairy Conference...he threw lavish parties all over the world...he has probably had his success and he certainly has had his failures. But to suddenly have an epiphany that everything is all fucked up and he can fix it is bullshit. He wants to be GP...he really isn't much of a VICE President. He wants to take charge so he can what? Fill the IBT with people like fucking Zuckerman?! People like Slawson?! Is Slawson's kid still on the slate? C'mon man this shit was funny at first now it's just sad...

[local107]

yougottabekiddin, on September 15 2010 - 01:59 PM, said:

Umm...so Dump, what you're saying is that Hoffa has failed the membership because he hasn't added members and increased the treasury? Under those standards, you fucking moron, there wouldn't be a damn Local Union in the country that would retain their leadership. And there wouldn't be a damn INTERNATIONAL Union that would retain their leadership either. Would you want to court martial the captain of every ship that sank at Pearl Harbor too? Face it scumbag, our International Union is pretty healthy considering the economic collapse that affected us on not just a national level but a global one as well. Hoffa has had to navigate some pretty turbulant water. I won't blame Gegare for anything other than trying to take advantage of dire times and stabbing people in the back while trying to seize control. He was happy as a clam...he NOMINATED Hoffa...he served as Director of the Dairy Conference...he threw lavish parties all over the world...he has probably had his success and he certainly has had his failures. But to suddenly have an epiphany that everything is all fucked up and he can fix it is bullshit. He wants to be GP...he really isn't much of a VICE President. He wants to take charge so he can what? Fill the IBT with people like fucking Zuckerman?! People like Slawson?! Is Slawson's kid still on the slate? C'mon man this shit was funny at first now it's just sad...

your a fucking asshole you hoffa dick sucker

[yougottabekiddin]

local107, on September 15 2010 - 04:04 PM, said:

your a fucking asshole you hoffa dick sucker

Haha Internet Toughguy lol. You would shit your pants if you ever had the chance to say that to my face lol. YOU must be a TDU pussy...

[DumpHoffaNow]

yougottabekiddin, on September 15 2010 - 01:59 PM, said:

Umm...so Dump, what you're saying is that Hoffa has failed the membership because he hasn't added members and increased the treasury? Under those standards, you fucking moron, there wouldn't be a damn Local Union in the country that would retain their leadership. And there wouldn't be a damn INTERNATIONAL Union that would retain their leadership either. Would you want to court martial the captain of every ship that sank at Pearl Harbor too? Face it scumbag, our International Union is pretty healthy considering the economic collapse that affected us on not just a national level but a global one as well. Hoffa has had to navigate some pretty turbulant water. I won't blame Gegare for anything other than trying to take advantage of dire times and stabbing people in the back while trying to seize control. He was happy as a clam...he NOMINATED Hoffa...he served as Director of the Dairy Conference...he threw lavish parties all over the world...he has probably had his success and he certainly has had his failures. But to suddenly have an epiphany that everything is all fucked up and he can fix it is bullshit. He wants to be GP...he really isn't much of a VICE President. He wants to take charge so he can what? Fill the IBT with people like fucking Zuckerman?! People like Slawson?! Is Slawson's kid still on the slate? C'mon man this shit was funny at first now it's just sad...

Yes - that is exactly what I'm saying! Hoffa has failed the membership because we are weaker now because he is not organizing and is losing members at a record pace. He is not providing any leadership on this issue and our union will continue to falter with him as the captain of this ship. And yes I am saying Hoffa is personally responsible for our union being fucking broke and having to borrow money to pay bills and laying off staff that provide essential services to the membership. Remember when Hoffa called Carey a fucking bum for destroying the union's finances? Guess Hoffa is a fucking bum too. If you think the International is healthy you are on drugs. And, you fucking moron, there are local unions who are not failing the membership and under those standards as you say are increasing their membership. Funny that you pick on Zuckerman and Slawson. These two guys have two of the largest local unions in the international and have been increasing their membership over the years and Hoffa must have thought they were pretty good because Hoffa hired both of them. The sad thing is once they found out what a scumbag Hoffa was they were forced to do something about it.

[Masshole]

yougottabekiddin, on September 15 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Haha Internet Toughguy lol. You would shit your pants if you ever had the chance to say that to my face lol. YOU must be a TDU pussy...

Hey Kiddin, He is one of those X-MOVIE guys from 107 lol.

[DirtyDairy]

I'm sure Zuckerman really appreciated it when Gegare referred to him behind his back as "that wall-eyed motherfucker"

And now that Gegare is headed to the Women's conference I'm sure the ladies will be happy to hear that he called Maria Martinez "a wetback cunt"

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 14 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

Not much sense in continuing debate on the issues with you Hoffa assholes. Hoffa has fucked up the Union and all you want to do is blame Gegare for all that shit which is idiotic.

I have not engaged in this name calling or mother fucking of one another and I would expect the same respect. When someone resorts to that it shows weakness. I still see no plan from Gegare and that is why he is a joke.

Our union is not falling apart and it certainly isnt in as bad of shape as some political oponents claim. there is a lot of responsability to pass around for our current problems and Gegare has accepted none of it. It is rediculous for him to say some of what he is saying right now and the anti hoffa arguement is weak at best.

Some say that Hoffa has not organized in our core industries yet when I point it out to them I get an arguement that the contract sucks. You guys cant have it both ways. Our union has focused on key areas and has been successful, not as much as all of us want but there is success. I have pointed to many areas and debated without name calling these areas yet some still cant help themselves and they engage in the bullshit of tearing us down.

Unfortunatly in politics you have to destroy your union, or the appearence of it, so that you can take control. That is bullshit. You cant go 12 years riding the same horse then shoot them in the head when they carried you meanwhile critisizing everything that happen in that span. That is what is wrong with our great union.

Do me the courtesy of a respectful debate as to how we move our union and its members in the right direction without destroying it.

[coastal]

Lando, not to focus on the above name slashing of either side. But question to you? What you do consider a "Core Industry?" As I consider Heavy Highway Construction and Ready mix a core industry! Where has that gone? I see no organizing efforts in that whatsoever! So enlighten me and tell me what other core industries Hoffa has organized, that are core industries. Since you seem to believe he has been organizing core industries? What ones?

[Sandy in '16]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 16 2010 - 05:47 AM, said:

Yes - that is exactly what I'm saying! Hoffa has failed the membership because we are weaker now because he is not organizing and is losing members at a record pace. He is not providing any leadership on this issue and our union will continue to falter with him as the captain of this ship. And yes I am saying Hoffa is personally responsible for our union being fucking broke and having to borrow money to pay bills and laying off staff that provide essential services to the membership. Remember when Hoffa called Carey a fucking bum for destroying the union's finances? Guess Hoffa is a fucking bum too. If you think the International is healthy you are on drugs. And, you fucking moron, there are local unions who are not failing the membership and under those standards as you say are increasing their membership. Funny that you pick on Zuckerman and Slawson. These two guys have two of the largest local unions in the international and have been increasing their membership over the years and Hoffa must have thought they were pretty good because Hoffa hired both of them. The sad thing is once they found out what a scumbag Hoffa was they were forced to do something about it.

Zuckerman's membership increases according to the needs of his UPS hub, not any organizing efforts he has made and Slawson has merged several locals into his to increase the membership of his local. Why don't you tell the truth just once. You also made the same claim about Gegare raising his membership through organizing until I called you on that too. Why don't you stop lying and admit that Sandy Pope and Tom Leedham are the only leaders who have consistently opposed Hoffa and Keegel for the past 10 years while leaders like Gegare, Slawson and Zuckerman have been a huge part of the problem. Like I said before, replacing Hoffa with Gegare is like replacing George W. Bush with Dick Cheney, and that's not change I can believe in.

[Rome/Hoffa2011]

coastal, on September 16 2010 - 01:35 PM, said:

Lando, not to focus on the above name slashing of either side. But question to you? What you do consider a "Core Industry?" As I consider Heavy Highway Construction and Ready mix a core industry! Where has that gone? I see no organizing efforts in that whatsoever! So enlighten me and tell me what other core industries Hoffa has organized, that are core industries. Since you seem to believe he has been organizing core industries? What ones?

If you are talking about the Building and Construction side of the union as a core industry, don't forget the thousands of members we have added under the national pipeline contract. These are good paying jobs replacing pipelines all over the country that have added thousands of members to the Central States Pension Fund.

[Lando]

coastal, on September 16 2010 - 01:35 PM, said:

Lando, not to focus on the above name slashing of either side. But question to you? What you do consider a "Core Industry?" As I consider Heavy Highway Construction and Ready mix a core industry! Where has that gone? I see no organizing efforts in that whatsoever! So enlighten me and tell me what other core industries Hoffa has organized, that are core industries. Since you seem to believe he has been organizing core industries? What ones?

As far as "core industries" are concerned the Teamsters are rich with them. We represent many areas with transportation and warehousing being the most core in my opinion.

So let's talk about the the focus of organizing in our core industries. In freight you have UPS Freight with 12,000 members, USF Companies, organizing many facilities with an aggressive attempt at the entire company as well as a number of other smaller companies. In airline thousands of members have have been organized and that is an industry that Hoffa Sr. targeted as important to our union bringing power and control to transportation as a whole. Carhaul and tanker were both targeted and attempts were made on various companies. In warehouse many neutrality and card check agreements have been worked out bringing thousands of members into a contract. The list goes on but some don't want to listen.

The construction and trades have not been focused on like they should but you also can only do so much. Every division or craft in our diverse union wants someone to organize for them in their industry but that's the problem. They should do it themselves. The responsibility to organize is everyones for it to be successful. Gegare has never prioritized organizing and that's a fact. Hoffa has with success but some want to overlook what has been done so they can destroy something to take it over.

Hoffa prioritized organizing and politics increasing our success in both areas period.

Yes more has to be done and hopefully the Farm Team departs with Keegle. Farmer is Keegles guy and he needs to go with Gegare and Slawson. Farmer will try and latch onto Hoffa and I sure hope he cuts him loose so we can elevate our organizing. Gegare has no idea how to do that nor does he have anyone around him that can.

12 years brings many decisions to second guess and a bad economy brings a lot of things none of us want to deal with. When it got tough Gegare bailed and started to pull TDU shit. That's why he is a joke and hopefully this responds to your question, without name calling.

[Lando]

One more point, transportation is the heart of our union in one form or another and transportation has been affected more than any other industry in this country. It started with the gauging of the oil industry under Bush and rolled right thru this recession we are in the middle of. To blame Hoffa for the effects of that by saying he didn't stop us from losing members during the biggest economic impact on our union ever is simply wrong. 75% of our membership was and is being affected by this. That is not Hoffa's fault and anyone not paying attention to it is not doing their job if you are in a leadership position in this union. To sit back now and try and capitalize on it is weak character with no insight or understanding of this complex problem. Opportunistic is the best way to explain it. Supporting that attitude will not help our union it will only create further problems.

For the third time I will challenge everyone to engage in debate on how to move our union forward with good, specific ideas.

Debating candidates is a necessary part of this form and let's also keep in mind that we should exchange ideas to move our union forward while we are trying to prove who can do a better job of it. That is what has made our union the best.

[coastal]

Brother Lando, Transportation is the "core industry" in which was the start in Teamsters. In colonial times, from Carmen to cartmen, it was Team drivers. It is the foundation of the Team drivers with horses,(at that time) as we delivered goods, all supplies, by horse and wagon. It is that foundation since 1899 that brought Teamsters closer together and toward a foundation of the Team Drivers International Union in 1899. It is why we have the two headed horse heads as our Teamster Logo so we never forget! I believe it was in 1902 (and correct me if I'm wrong on the date?) that it was said, "There is no industry today that can successfully carry on their business if the Teamster lays down his reins." This still holds true today. Transportation is the core industry and although it is not longer horse and wagon, it is wheels, that delivers goods, supplies, and should be Teamster drivers behind the wheels! So if we do lay down our reins and say, we'll we have UPS and Freight, but Ready mix and Construction is only for those that individually want to get involved?--you say? So should we let it go to the wayside as it has been for over 12 years, as I watch non union men drive Ready mix trucks,etc. --What do you think will happen? We have non union trucking outfits/drivers taking over what use to be Teamster trade work. Transportation is essential and necessary today--These are jobs that can bring work back during a tough time right now. We are almost like the days of the depression when it when was that bad. Why should we let management and non union outfits have Teamster work?! There is no reason for it. The reins have been on stand still, the reins seem to be laid down for the past years, and it's time to take reins back again! As if we do, were creating jobs for Teamsters, we already have the jurisdiction over wheels and why are we not creating jobs in Transportation??

I have to be someplace right now, but I'll comment later on regarding the rest of the above posts sometime this weekend. As I do have more to say on this topic. Real quickly here, I know organizing ready mix/trucking outfits is not easy task now that it has gone to the wayside, but I was in one of the largest ready mix/Building material and dump truck drivers; construction local and it will not be an easy task now,(that mostly non union outfits have our work) but it needs to be done. And not just on a local level either.

All for now,

Coastal

[Lando]

coastal, on September 18 2010 - 04:17 AM, said:

Brother Lando, Transportation is the "core industry" in which was the start in Teamsters. In colonial times, from Carmen to cartmen, it was Team drivers. It is the foundation of the Team drivers with horses,(at that time) as we delivered goods, all supplies, by horse and wagon. It is that foundation since 1899 that brought Teamsters closer together and toward a foundation of the Team Drivers International Union in 1899. It is why we have the two headed horse heads as our Teamster Logo so we never forget! I believe it was in 1902 (and correct me if I'm wrong on the date?) that it was said, "There is no industry today that can successfully carry on their business if the Teamster lays down his reins." This still holds true today. Transportation is the core industry and although it is not longer horse and wagon, it is wheels, that delivers goods, supplies, and should be Teamster drivers behind the wheels! So if we do lay down our reins and say, we'll we have UPS and Freight, but Ready mix and Construction is only for those that individually want to get involved?--you say? So should we let it go to the wayside as it has been for over 12 years, as I watch non union men drive Ready mix trucks,etc. --What do you think will happen? We have non union trucking outfits/drivers taking over what use to be Teamster trade work. Transportation is essential and necessary today--These are jobs that can bring work back during a tough time right now. We are almost like the days of the depression when it when was that bad. Why should we let management and non union outfits have Teamster work?! There is no reason for it. The reins have been on stand still, the reins seem to be laid down for the past years, and it's time to take reins back again! As if we do, were creating jobs for Teamsters, we already have the jurisdiction over wheels and why are we not creating jobs in Transportation??

I have to be someplace right now, but I'll comment later on regarding the rest of the above posts sometime this weekend. As I do have more to say on this topic. Real quickly here, I know organizing ready mix/trucking outfits is not easy task now that it has gone to the wayside, but I was in one of the largest ready mix/Building material and dump truck drivers; construction local and it will not be an easy task now,(that mostly non union outfits have our work) but it needs to be done. And not just on a local level either.

All for now,
1903 is the date however some would argue it goes back to 1885 and I would agree with them. I too am very proud of our origins and you did a good job of laying some of that out here. Our logo has a great history and tradition while many take it for granted. Obviously you are not one of those.

I didn't say we should let ready mix go to the way side. I said we haven't focused on it and I would agree it should be an area that is made a priority. Actually this area is the key to all the other areas and it is a major critiisizm of the current organizing department. If we control rock and sand we control the construction trades. The Farm Team missed the boat on this. My other point is the priority to organize should be everyones not just a handful of organizers. The locals and divisions by and large don't dedicate the resources necessary to do it right. Most leaders in our union do not put their money where their mouth is when it comes to organizing. Gegare clearly is one of those that's talks but doesn't do.

Hoffa prioritized organizing more than anyone since his father and there has been success that some are not recognizing. That is an absolute fact and the politics are getting in the way of our growth. I agree with a lot of what you said in your post and hoping the current state of politics takes Farmer out would allow our union to move into an even better position.

Gegare has never prioritized organizing in his long self indulgent career. As a matter of fact he has always been very supportive of the entire Farm Team as he now says what he does on his website. That's a joke.

As far as his position on politics and DRIVE very weak and no real plan again. Look at his numbers in his own local and the lack of members participating. His record speaks for itself and he has obviously coasted for many years.