155 replies to this topic

[Lando]

Silence from the na sayers is always a good sign

[IBBadDude]

Its about time some people make sense out of the madness. Lots of good points made without the finger pointing.

The conversation on how we continue to move our union forward is one that should be entertained here. Constructive discussion is always better than tearing our union down and trying to destroy the leadership for political gain.

Sounds like Lando has a good understanding of how we got to where we are now. Reading back through all the posts most very good points have not been responded to and those that are looking to name calling have been quieted by the reasonalbleness of his points. I would love to engage in this discusion that moves our union forward so where do we start?

[DumpHoffaNow]

IBBadDude, on September 21 2010 - 02:36 PM, said:

Its about time some people make sense out of the madness. Lots of good points made without the finger pointing.

The conversation on how we continue to move our union forward is one that should be entertained here. Constructive discussion is always better than tearing our union down and trying to destroy the leadership for political gain.

Sounds like Lando has a good understanding of how we got to where we are now. Reading back through all the posts most very good points have not been responded to and those that are looking to name calling have been quieted by the reasonalbleness of his points. I would love to engage in this discusion that moves our union forward so where do we start?

Doesn't make sense to continue debate with these folks who want to misguidedly place blame for all Hoffa's failures on Gegare. Debate is useful to move the Union forward. I think we should debate why Hoffa has financialy destroyed the Union. But just as soon as we do they want to blame Gegare which is just idiotic because it is Hoffa who is the failure. It would be good to debate why Hoffa hasn't organized in core industries and supported active and retired Teamsters in Teamster Pension Funds. It would be good to debate why the organizing department is $37/million over budget and not accomplishing it's primary mission. It would be good to debate why TAPP and the Family Plans are near bankruptcy and going to break the IBT without significant funding. It would be good to debate why Hoffa has divided his e board, Joint Councils and Local Unions just like Ron Carey did. It would be good to debate why Hoffa was personally involved in Joint Council 43's elections. But the Hoffa guys on here want to deflect the debate and blame Gegare for all this shit which is rediculous. So there is really no point to continuing this thread. Guys like Lando, yougottobekidding, Shitalker, Rome/Hoffa and others are probably being paid by the IBT and want to keep their little slice of the pie and know when Gegare wins they will be out. And Gegare will win because the members will not put up with a weak and broke Union for the next 5 years.

[Lando]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 21 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:

Doesn't make sense to continue debate with these folks who want to misguidedly place blame for all Hoffa's failures on Gegare. Debate is useful to move the Union forward. I think we should debate why Hoffa has financialy destroyed the Union. But just as soon as we do they want to blame Gegare which is just idiotic because it is Hoffa who is the failure. It would be good to debate why Hoffa hasn't organized in core industries and supported active and retired Teamsters in Teamster Pension Funds. It would be good to debate why the organizing department is $37/million over budget and not accomplishing it's primary mission. It would be good to debate why TAPP and the Family Plans are near bankruptcy and going to break the IBT without significant funding. It would be good to debate why Hoffa has divided his e board, Joint Councils and Local Unions just like Ron Carey did. It would be good to debate why Hoffa was personally involved in Joint Council 43's elections. But the Hoffa guys on here want to deflect the debate and blame Gegare for all this shit which is rediculous. So there is really no point to continuing this thread. Guys like Lando, yougottobekidding, Shitalker, Rome/Hoffa and others are probably being paid by the IBT and want to keep their little slice of the pie and know when Gegare wins they will be out. And Gegare will win because the members will not put up with a weak and broke Union for the next 5 years.

The funny thing is there hasn't been much debate. Hoffa has not financially destroyed the union. If you believe the union is financially destroyed then you should ask Keegle why he let that happen. Under the constitution it is his responsibility. Regardless the union is not financially destroyed. Hoffa has his failures and Gegare is one of them. I laid out in detail a few posts ago how Hoffa has organized in core industries but it was all quiet and no response as usual when facts are presented. I will agree with you that the Farm Team needs to go and we need to elevate organizing to the next level. What you nor anyone else will acknowledge that is a fact is that Hoffa prioritized organizing more than anyone in more than 30 years with success. As far as TAPP I won't debate a subject I am not completely familiar with so let me look into that and I will gladly respond once I understand it more.

Hoffa's E Board is not divided. Gegare only has one person off of the board besides himself. Gegare is creating the division not Hoffa. Looks like almost the entire board has stayed behind Hoffa, sounds like it's not divided. When you look at the support from the petitions it doesn't look like Hoffa has divided Joint Councils. A General President getting involved in Joint Council politics doesn't sound like anything new. That goes back more than 100 years. Come on find something better than that. Being elected at any level means politics are being played and there is always some sort mingling. Not acknowledging that is ignoring the nature of the beast.

Gegare needs to take responsibility for his role and he nor you are doing that.

I pointed out very clearly why our organization and our country are having issues right now. No, some want to blame Hoffa verses helping fix the problems. If you say it enough some might believe it. You said it "no use continuing this thread" witch means you don't want to help or discuss how to move our union forward.

Speaking for myself I do not get a pay check from Hoffa. As usual an assumption by some casting unfounded aspersions to support a weak argument. Sounds like TDU!!!

Hoffa did what we asked him to do including Gegare. Build a strike fund, done. Prioritize Organizing and dedicate resources to it, done. Shore up our political support and DRIVE, done that too. Those were the main areas of his campaign in 96 and 98 and there will always be more work to be done. Listening to some it appears as if they purposely overlook what has been done to convince themselves that nothing has been done.

Gegare has no support for all these reasons and his super weak petition drive shows that. The numbers are a laughing stock. TDU could do better than that.

Still no plan from Gegare. Are you out there?

[Lando]

Lando, on September 17 2010 - 12:36 PM, said:

One more point, transportation is the heart of our union in one form or another and transportation has been affected more than any other industry in this country. It started with the gauging of the oil industry under Bush and rolled right thru this recession we are in the middle of. To blame Hoffa for the effects of that by saying he didn't stop us from losing members during the biggest economic impact on our union ever is simply wrong. 75% of our membership was and is being affected by this. That is not Hoffa's fault and anyone not paying attention to it is not doing their job if you are in a leadership position in this union. To sit back now and try and capitalize on it is weak character with no insight or understanding of this complex problem. Opportunistic is the best way to explain it. Supporting that attitude will not help our union it will only create further problems.

For the third time I will challenge everyone to engage in debate on how to move our union forward with good, specific ideas.

Debating candidates is a necessary part of this form and let's also keep in mind that we should exchange ideas to move our union forward while we are trying to prove who can do a better job of it. That is what has made our union the best.

Dump, just in case you missed it.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Lando, on September 21 2010 - 09:00 PM, said:

The funny thing is there hasn't been much debate. Hoffa has not financially destroyed the union. If you believe the union is financially destroyed then you should ask Keegle why he let that happen. Under the constitution it is his responsibility. Regardless the union is not financially destroyed. Hoffa has his failures and Gegare is one of them. I laid out in detail a few posts ago how Hoffa has organized in core industries but it was all quiet and no response as usual when facts are presented. I will agree with you that the Farm Team needs to go and we need to elevate organizing to the next level. What you nor anyone else will acknowledge that is a fact is that Hoffa prioritized organizing more than anyone in more than 30 years with success. As far as TAPP I won't debate a subject I am not completely familiar with so let me look into that and I will gladly respond once I understand it more.

Hoffa's E Board is not divided. Gegare only has one person off of the board besides himself. Gegare is creating the division not Hoffa. Looks like almost the entire board has stayed behind Hoffa, sounds like it's not divided. When you look at the support from the petitions it doesn't look like Hoffa has divided Joint Councils. A General President getting involved in Joint Council politics doesn't sound like anything new. That goes back more than 100 years. Come on find something better than that. Being elected at any level means politics are being played and there is always some sort mingling. Not acknowledging that is ignoring the nature of the beast.

Gegare needs to take responsibility for his role and he nor you are doing that.

I pointed out very clearly why our organization and our country are having issues right now. No, some want to blame Hoffa verses helping fix the problems. If you say it enough some might believe it. You said it "no use continuing this thread" witch means you don't want to help or discuss how to move our union forward.

Speaking for myself I do not get a pay check from Hoffa. As usual an assumption by some casting unfounded aspersions to support a weak argument. Sounds like TDU!!!

Hoffa did what we asked him to do including Gegare. Build a strike fund, done. Prioritize Organizing and dedicate resources to it, done. Shore up our political support and DRIVE, done that too. Those were the main areas of his campaign in 96 and 98 and there will always be more work to be done. Listening to some it appears as if they purposely overlook what has been done to convince themselves that nothing has been done.

Gegare has no support for all these reasons and his super weak petition drive shows that. The numbers are a laughing stock. TDU could do better than that.

Still no plan from Gegare. Are you out there?

It's difficult to have debate with you when you don't understand the facts.

You say " Hoffa has not financially destroyed the union." Check the facts. The IBT had about $88/million at the last LM-2 reporting period. That is a matter of public record. More the $70/million is designated by the constitution for the Strike and Defense fund and can not be used for the general administration of the IBT. Hoffa has been dipping into it in violation of the constitution but we'll save that for a later time. That leaves less than $18/million to run the affairs of the union. Hoffa has been laying off staff that is essential to running the union because he is broke. Hoffa mortgaged the building for $20/million so he could pay bills. That was after he lost $20/million with his brilliant idea to cash in the 3 non erisa portflios. Hoffa has cut the budgets of all the IBT Departments to where they can't service the membership. Hoffa doesn't have enough money to pay for the convention. And this is after the largest dues increase the members and Local Unions have ever taken. Don't blame Tom Keegel. Keegel doesn't agree with Hoffa's policies and it is why Keegel won't run with Hoffa. These are facts - check them. Call the General Executive Board member that represents your area and ask him - 202-624-6800. The GEB is meeting this week and they will have the most up to date information on this issue. And please - don't come back with some stupid comment that it is someone elses fault.

Obviously you don't know the importance of organizing in core industries. Let's take freight for a minute. Supporting core industies supports the standards of the industry and by placing organized members in Teamster Pension Funds supports those active members as well as retired Teamsters. The members organized at UPS Freight actually destroyed the standards in the freight industry. Everyone knows the freight division is now lowering the standards of the NMFA as a result. That was not what our union was founded on. The UPS freight members hate the IBT for misleading them into the worst contract anyone has ever seen. When did we start negitiating contracts that provide better conditions for scabs than our members?

The IBT has also failed to come up with an organizing strategy to support our active and retired members in Teamster Pension Plans. We all know the problem. The solution is to put active participants into these funds and not take them out. Without that the funds will continue to lose participants, retirements will continue, and eventually the PBGC will take over the funds and our members will get 1/3 of their pension benefit. This is happening to all Teamster Pension Funds. Hoffa has turned his back on the very Teamsters who have built this union and has no plan to help them. Taking UPS out of Central States and not putting UPS Freight into Teamster plans and UPS getting out of the rest of the Teamster plans in 2013 is enough reason to vote Hoffa out of office.

And don't blame the organizing department. They work under Hoffa's direction.

As for TAPP it stands for the Teamsters Affiliates Pension Plan. Thousands of Teamsters including Business Agents and office staff are participants in the plan. There has been zero funding to the plan since 1995. The plan now needs funding to continue to pay the retirement benefits to those Teamster participants. Hoffa will not make any funding payments and as a result will end up bankrupting the IBT. Don't beleive me? Call your GEB member at 202 624 6800 and ask him. This week is a great week to talk to him.

And your comment about Hoffa's executive board not being divided is just idiotic. So let's see? Keegel - won't run with Hoffa and publically states Hoffa is running the union in the wrong direction. Henry Perry - Brad Slawson - Al Hobart - Jack Cipriani - Walt Lytle - .... and on and on and on

And don't worry about Gegare. He will win this election because the members won't support Hoffa.

[Rocky Sullivan]

Gegare and Slawson need to get real and get back to where they belong-with the current GEB. They do not have the support or money to run and succeed in a race against Hoffa. This is nothing but a distraction and a complete waste of money, not to mention total disloyalty.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Rocky Sullivan, on September 22 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Gegare and Slawson need to get real and get back to where they belong-with the current GEB. They do not have the support or money to run and succeed in a race against Hoffa. This is nothing but a distraction and a complete waste of money, not to mention total disloyalty.

Same old stuff with a new screen name. Brilliant! Their loyalty lies with the members and not incompetant leadership.

[Sandy in '16]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 22 2010 - 05:10 AM, said:

It's difficult to have debate with you when you don't understand the facts.

You say " Hoffa has not financially destroyed the union." Check the facts. The IBT had about $88/million at the last LM-2 reporting period. That is a matter of public record. More the $70/million is designated by the constitution for the Strike and Defense fund and can not be used for the general administration of the IBT. Hoffa has been dipping into it in violation of the constitution but we'll save that for a later time. That leaves less than $18/million to run the affairs of the union. Hoffa has been laying off staff that is essential to running the union because he is broke. Hoffa mortgaged the building for $20/million so he could pay bills. That was after he lost $20/million with his brilliant idea to cash in the 3 non erisa portflios. Hoffa has cut the budgets of all the IBT Departments to where they can't service the membership. Hoffa doesn't have enough money to pay for the convention. And this is after the largest dues increase the members and Local Unions have ever taken. Don't blame Tom Keegel. Keegel doesn't agree with Hoffa's policies and it is why Keegel won't run with Hoffa. These are facts - check them. Call the General Executive Board member that represents your area and ask him - 202-624-6800. The GEB is meeting this week and they will have the most up to date information on this issue. And please - don't come back with some stupid comment that it is someone elses fault.

Obviously you don't know the importance of organizing in core industries. Let's take freight for a minute. Supporting core industies supports the standards of the industry and by placing organized members in Teamster Pension Funds supports those active members as well as retired Teamsters. The members organized at UPS Freight actually destroyed the standards in the freight industry. Everyone knows the freight division is now lowering the standards of the NMFA as a result. That was not what our union was founded on. The UPS freight members hate the IBT for misleading them into the worst contract anyone has ever seen. When did we start negitiating contracts that provide better conditions for scabs than our members?

The IBT has also failed to come up with an organizing strategy to support our active and retired members in Teamster Pension Plans. We all know the problem. The solution is to put active participants into these funds and not take them out. Without that the funds will continue to lose participants, retirements will continue, and eventually the PBGC will take over the funds and our members will get 1/3 of their pension benefit. This is happening to all Teamster Pension Funds. Hoffa has turned his back on the very Teamsters who have built this union and has no plan to help them. Taking UPS out of Central States and not putting UPS Freight into Teamster plans and UPS getting out of the rest of the Teamster plans in 2013 is enough reason to vote Hoffa out of office.

And don't blame the organizing department. They work under Hoffa's direction.

As for TAPP it stands for the Teamsters Affiliates Pension Plan. Thousands of Teamsters including Business Agents and office staff are participants in the plan. There has been zero funding to the plan since 1995. The plan now needs funding to continue to pay the retirement benefits to those Teamster participants. Hoffa will not make any funding payments and as a result will end up bankrupting the IBT. Don't beleive me? Call your GEB member at 202 624 6800 and ask him. This week is a great week to talk to him.

And your comment about Hoffa's executive board not being divided is just idiotic. So let's see? Keegel - won't run with Hoffa and publically states Hoffa is running the union in the wrong direction. Henry Perry - Brad Slawson - Al Hobart - Jack Cipriani - Walt Lytle - .... and on and on and on

And don't worry about Gegare. He will win this election because the members won't support Hoffa.

You have to be kidding if you think Keegel is not culpable for the financial problems at the IBT. Read your constitution because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about if you want to give Keegel a free pass.

Keegel was the one who oversaw the TAPP as it went from having assets of 540 million and fell down to 280 million. Last time I checked, Gegare sat on that fund as well. In my mind, Keegel is MORE responsible than Hoffa for the TAPP's demise. Keegel is also responsible for the IBT's finances so if the IBT is as broke as you claim, it is Keegel's fault. Hoffa can not just access union funds without Keegel's approval. Keegel was asleep at the wheel when the economy collapsed and he failed to dial back investments. It was disatrous to the funds and the treasury as a whole. As much as I hate Hoffa, that is Keegel's responsibility, not Hoffa's. Put the blame where it belongs.

I was at the Women's Conference and Keegel looked out of it to me. He gave the same speech for the 4th year in a row with the reference to leaving the toilet seat up in a house of women once again. He gave a lot to our union but it is time for him to go. If he would have left 5 years ago, we might not have the problems we have today.

DumpHoffaNow likes to reinvent people to fit his narrative, but his fiction is not believable. Hoffa is a failure but Gegare and Keegel are huge parts of the problem too, not the solution. DumpHoffaNow wants you to believe that Gegare will be an organizing force when he has never had success organizing. He wants you to believe Gegare will be fiscally responsible when his history is just the opposite. He wants you to believe our General Secretary Treasurer has nothing to do with our unions finances. The list goes on and on.

There is a reason Sandy Pope said NO to Gegare when he asked her to be his running mate. Voting to have Gegare replace Hoffa is like voting for Dick Cheney to replace Bush. That's not change I can believe in.

[IBBadDude]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 22 2010 - 05:10 AM, said:

It's difficult to have debate with you when you don't understand the facts.

You say " Hoffa has not financially destroyed the union." Check the facts. The IBT had about $88/million at the last LM-2 reporting period. That is a matter of public record. More the $70/million is designated by the constitution for the Strike and Defense fund and can not be used for the general administration of the IBT. Hoffa has been dipping into it in violation of the constitution but we'll save that for a later time. That leaves less than $18/million to run the affairs of the union. Hoffa has been laying off staff that is essential to running the union because he is broke. Hoffa mortgaged the building for $20/million so he could pay bills. That was after he lost $20/million with his brilliant idea to cash in the 3 non erisa portflios. Hoffa has cut the budgets of all the IBT Departments to where they can't service the membership. Hoffa doesn't have enough money to pay for the convention. And this is after the largest dues increase the members and Local Unions have ever taken. Don't blame Tom Keegel. Keegel doesn't agree with Hoffa's policies and it is why Keegel won't run with Hoffa. These are facts - check them. Call the General Executive Board member that represents your area and ask him - 202-624-6800. The GEB is meeting this week and they will have the most up to date information on this issue. And please - don't come back with some stupid comment that it is someone elses fault.

Obviously you don't know the importance of organizing in core industries. Let's take freight for a minute. Supporting core industies supports the standards of the industry and by placing organized members in Teamster Pension Funds supports those active members as well as retired Teamsters. The members organized at UPS Freight actually destroyed the standards in the freight industry. Everyone knows the freight division is now lowering the standards of the NMFA as a result. That was not what our union was founded on. The UPS freight members hate the IBT for misleading them into the worst contract anyone has ever seen. When did we start negitiating contracts that provide better conditions for scabs than our members?

The IBT has also failed to come up with an organizing strategy to support our active and retired members in Teamster Pension Plans. We all know the problem. The solution is to put active participants into these funds and not take them out. Without that the funds will continue to lose participants, retirements will continue, and eventually the PBGC will take over the funds and our members will get 1/3 of their pension benefit. This is happening to all Teamster Pension Funds. Hoffa has turned his back on the very Teamsters who have built this union and has no plan to help them. Taking UPS out of Central States and not putting UPS Freight into Teamster plans and UPS getting out of the rest of the Teamster plans in 2013 is enough reason to vote Hoffa out of office.

And don't blame the organizing department. They work under Hoffa's direction.

As for TAPP it stands for the Teamsters Affiliates Pension Plan. Thousands of Teamsters including Business Agents and office staff are participants in the plan. There has been zero funding to the plan since 1995. The plan now needs funding to continue to pay the retirement benefits to those Teamster participants. Hoffa will not make any funding payments and as a result will end up bankrupting the IBT. Don't beleive me? Call your GEB member at 202 624 6800 and ask him. This week is a great week to talk to him.

And your comment about Hoffa's executive board not being divided is just idiotic. So let's see? Keegel - won't run with Hoffa and publically states Hoffa is running the union in the wrong direction. Henry Perry - Brad Slawson - Al Hobart - Jack Cipriani - Walt Lytle - .... and on and on and on

And don't worry about Gegare. He will win this election because the members won't support Hoffa.

The UPS Freight memebers do not hate the IBT unless you have been convincing them of that. That is rediculous and you obviously do not understand the situation. You are looking to take shots at a first contract. So are you saying these members get the NMFA in a first contract. It took 60 years to create it as it is today and to take a position like that out the gate means you do not understand how to deal with organizing and negotiating first contracts when it hasnt been done for more than 30 years.

This is what is wrong with us. We organize it and its not good enough. We should get everything for memebers that did not sacrafice over the last 60 years because why? Attempting to grasp everything in a first contract is not posible, is distructive and leads to a labor dispute that fails 90% of the time.

For those that have not been successful at this its so easy to throw stones and you do not know what you are talking about.

Keep trying to convince your members they should hate the IBT and their contract sucks and eventually they will turn on you. My members are very proud to be Teamsters and understand that they will build their contracts over time.

I am proud of these workers

I am proud that they are Teamsters

They are proud to be Teamsters

I love my union and so do they.

[DumpHoffaNow]

Sandy in'16, on September 22 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

You have to be kidding if you think Keegel is not culpable for the financial problems at the IBT. Read your constitution because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about if you want to give Keegel a free pass.

Keegel was the one who oversaw the TAPP as it went from having assets of 540 million and fell down to 280 million. Last time I checked, Gegare sat on that fund as well. In my mind, Keegel is MORE responsible than Hoffa for the TAPP's demise. Keegel is also responsible for the IBT's finances so if the IBT is as broke as you claim, it is Keegel's fault. Hoffa can not just access union funds without Keegel's approval. Keegel was asleep at the wheel when the economy collapsed and he failed to dial back investments. It was disatrous to the funds and the treasury as a whole. As much as I hate Hoffa, that is Keegel's responsibility, not Hoffa's. Put the blame where it belongs.

I was at the Women's Conference and Keegel looked out of it to me. He gave the same speech for the 4th year in a row with the reference to leaving the toilet seat up in a house of women once again. He gave a lot to our union but it is time for him to go. If he would have left 5 years ago, we might not have the problems we have today.

DumpHoffaNow likes to reinvent people to fit his narrative, but his fiction is not believable. Hoffa is a failure but Gegare and Keegel are huge parts of the problem too, not the solution. DumpHoffaNow wants you to believe that Gegare will be an organizing force when he has never had success organizing. He wants you to believe Gegare will be fiscally responsible when his history is just the opposite. He wants you to believe our General Secretary Treasurer has nothing to do with our unions finances. The list goes on and on.

There is a reason Sandy Pope said NO to Gegare when he asked her to be his running mate. Voting to have Gegare replace Hoffa is like voting for Dick Cheney to replace Bush. That's not change I can believe in.

Sandy Pope in 2016. That's good she will need a job. Are you on dope? Lets look at her qualifications to be General President.

Local 805 - 2001 - assets $2,477,445 - members 1297

Local 805 - 2002 - assets $2,366,230 - members 1609 ? lost $111,215.

Local 805 - 2003 - assets $2,258,220 - members 1223 lost $108,010 and 74 members from 2001

Local 805 - 2004 - assets $2,115,212 - members 1200 lost $143,008 and 23 members.

Local 805 - 2005 - assets $1,753,652 - members 1276 lost $361,560 and picked up 76 members

Local 805 - 2006 - assets $1,554,939 - members lost $198,713

Local 805 - 2007 - assets $1,286,171- members 1201 - lost $268,768 and lost 75 members from 2005

Local 805 - 2008 - assets $976,537 - members 1201 - lost $309,634

Local 805 - 2009 - assets $762,594 - members 1066 - lost $213,943 and lost 135 members.

So do you see a problem here? In 8 years she has lost $1,714,851 of the Local Union assets. She never had a year when the Local made money and in fact lost big money. She never organized anybody and lost 231 members. Fact is she doesn't know what it takes to grow a union. These are facts taken off the Department of Labor website so you can check them if you want.

She also runs the Local 805 pension fund which is critically underfunded, in the red zone, and under a rehabilitation plan that requires 12.5% increased contributions from employers. I've never seen a pension fund in that bad shape.

And then she hires a guy as a business agent who wasn't a Teamster but came from other unions. Couldn't she find a qualified Teamster? Is this the way she would run the IBT?

So let's check out her track record. She has ruined the finances of Local 805 and if she continues the way she has demonstrated Local 805 will be broke by 2016, so she will be looking for a new job.

She has ruined the Local 805 pension fund and she won't hire qualified Teamsters. Sounds like she already works for Hoffa.

[DumpHoffaNow]

IBBadDude, on September 22 2010 - 02:31 PM, said:

The UPS Freight memebers do not hate the IBT unless you have been convincing them of that. That is rediculous and you obviously do not understand the situation. You are looking to take shots at a first contract. So are you saying these members get the NMFA in a first contract. It took 60 years to create it as it is today and to take a position like that out the gate means you do not understand how to deal with organizing and negotiating first contracts when it hasnt been done for more than 30 years.

This is what is wrong with us. We organize it and its not good enough. We should get everything for memebers that did not sacrafice over the last 60 years because why? Attempting to grasp everything in a first contract is not posible, is distructive and leads to a labor dispute that fails 90% of the time.

For those that have not been successful at this its so easy to throw stones and you do not know what you are talking about.

Keep trying to convince your members they should hate the IBT and their contract sucks and eventually they will turn on you. My members are very proud to be Teamsters and understand that they will build their contracts over time.

I am proud of these workers

I am proud that they are Teamsters

They are proud to be Teamsters

I love my union and so do they.

Obviously I do know how they feel. Try talking to a UPS Freight driver who has been displaced or laid off and sees scabs doing their work every night. Since when did we start negotiating contracts that allow scabs to do our work when our Brothers and Sisters are laid off or reduced to a lower classification? If that's the direction we are going because we are too weak to negotiate a decent contract we might as well get out of the union business.

[400lbsgorrilla]

It is so tiresome to here the same crap coming from every response that you make. I have been following this thread from the start and you have never once said anything that Mr George would do or should do to turn things around, If all you are going to do is put the current and future General President down you should find a different site to spew your shit!!! I am all for debate and for any ideas that might help turn the tide but enough is enough, Either SHUT THE HELL UP or SHOW UP WITH SOMTHING USEFULL start helping to solve the problems or go away. And for the record I am not on the payroll of the General President but if I was asked I would be proud to serve in what ever capacity he would ask of me....

[IBBadDude]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 22 2010 - 04:25 PM, said:

Obviously I do know how they feel. Try talking to a UPS Freight driver who has been displaced or laid off and sees scabs doing their work every night. Since when did we start negotiating contracts that allow scabs to do our work when our Brothers and Sisters are laid off or reduced to a lower classification? If that's the direction we are going because we are too weak to negotiate a decent contract we might as well get out of the union business.

Amazing response as usual. I talk to them every day and I explain to them that the grievance process that we have is working to fix the situation. The contract language does not allow what is happening and the arbitration process will remedy what the company is doing. Read the contract, Article 44 and it clearly doesn't allow what you are saying.

So to answer your question no one negotiated the direction that you speak of. Unfortunately the company is doing this not the union and shame on anyone that says otherwise. To convince our members the union is at fault when there is an active grievance and to blame anyone but the company is union busting. There is no excuse for it. The fact is the company violated the contract, not the union. The union is fighting it and the language negotiated is solid.

With your attitude we would go out of business.

I refuse to fall into the company trap of blaming the union.

I am proud to be a Teamster.

I love my union and will protect it.

[IBBadDude]

DumpHoffaNow, on September 22 2010 - 04:25 PM, said:

Obviously I do know how they feel. Try talking to a UPS Freight driver who has been displaced or laid off and sees scabs doing their work every night. Since when did we start negotiating contracts that allow scabs to do our work when our Brothers and Sisters are laid off or reduced to a lower classification? If that's the direction we are going because we are too weak to negotiate a decent contract we might as well get out of the union business.

The amazing thing is that you try and convince members that this is true. That is union busting!!!!!!!!!!!

Politics are one thing, destroying our union is another and you are attempting to destroy it with those very false statements.

[OG_joker]

dumphoffa i repersent the members at ups freight infact i have over 800 membres at 4 term from the sleeper teams to cassuals on the dock and im sick by what youkeep saying about there contract how they where better of before!!!! your so full of shiT!!!!! fact is this is the best first contract o ya a national contract thats been negotiated. you tell me what first contract that you or gegare have negotiated that has half of the things this one does article 44 subcontracting it reads the company is not aloud to do it and i know becouse i won the first case on it at the very first national panel im very proud to say i repersent ups freight membrs becuose of the contract i have to work with my members love the ibt and me this contract and its articles have saved these member jobs and gave them back pay !!!!!! and pay for runaround claims!!!! so instead of talking shit about somthing you dont know about why dont you go andread this contract and stop bashing it cuz you sound really stupid like i said my membrs love the ibt and Hall and Hoffa for the great job they did negotiating such a great first contract i even have members who where anti union in the overnite days stepping up and becoming shopstewards and thanking me and Hall for this contract !!!!!!! and with that said stop talking shit ass hole and get alife !!!!! o ya im not on the ibt pay role either but i do know what it takes to organize nad get a first contract cuz i even organized usfreddaway and sat in on nego for that contract !!!!!!! so what has fred done or you besides sit onthe side lines and throw stones and talk shit about somthing that hasnt been done in over 30yrs !!!! Hall got it done and Hoffa to !!!! 12000 new members across the country . thats great these members are very happy .

[coastal]

WOW, this thread jumped all over the place in my absence in a matter of a couple days! Whoa, brother Teamsters, lets take it down a notch. I was going to respond to the topics of discussion transportation,etc..,and go from there, but now I see the thread went wild and in a negative direction when it was finally starting to go over the issues. I'll respond to each of you briefly from where I left off, as now the thread is off center for anything but productive debate.

Lando, I had a Dr. Appointment(Over weekend) including some other personal/business matters to take care of the past few days and including this upcoming week. When I last left this thread it was calmed down, I told you I would respond in a few days time from where we left off. You took that opportunity of my silence and quiet thread to then start a new post of calling out "NA sayers?" You know as we'll as I do, that only brings out negative attention and not a positive thread. Now any positive discussion has gone to the wayside again. When you get people heated under the collar, nothing productive can come of it. So now, I'm going answer almost everyone (In order of posts) as if I was in a gm meeting briefly.

Rome/Hoffa, I have not forgotten about the national pipeline contract. I was a part of start of that as you already know in prior years. Re: Heavy highway construction and ready mix, there is NO reason in the past 15 years that non union outfits and operators on teamster work. That is something to talk further on without haste.-(No time to waste). Yes, I have ideas on that. You know that is my area of expertise.

Lando, It is non productive to keep pushing blame to everyone within IBT and/or anyone you see fit. Gegare, Keegel are not TDU! They are long time Teamsters!

Rocky Sullivan, I always believe in respecting the current GP, you and I have that in common. However, I do not believe the Gegare opposition as as "Distraction" as you say, considering he is running for the GP spot. Including anyone that wants to improve our union should be heard and I hold them in high regard. Debate is good as long as it remains productive otherwise it is useless.

IBBaddude, We are all proud Teamsters! And concerned brothers and sisters for the future of our union. If we didn't care, we wouldn't bother. But we do care, that's why we bother to discuss topics. Keep up positive input.

Sandy 16, Advice, whether you self promoting yourself and/or one of your self promoters, take note or advice that if you ever plan to run to be an IBT GP; taking pop shots at both slate sides is not the respected duty of a GP or Union representative. Advice, remember whatever is said on the internet stays on the internet for life! It can come back to haunt you,(in 5 yrs) so just advisement that's all. FYI-both slate sides still respect Keegel, need to get in the know. You have not been around long enough to know that yet. Good to see a sister wanting to run, I have nothing negative to say about you, but just advice here.

Dumphoffanow, No scabs should be taking over and/or doing Teamster brother/sister work. I'm sure we are all in agreement on that on both slate sides!-including members throughout! I have further comments on that at a later time. However, you saying we should get out of the union biz no! I am not in agreement with you on that, however I understood what you had meant by that statement (reading between the lines) without getting upset as other Teamsters took it the wrong way of what you had meant by that statement. I do not believe you are a union buster, (otherwise you wouldn't have passion for our union and be here as you are), yet you do not want things to turn into management style within our union. I understood what you had meant by your comment.

Gorilla-I've talked to you before. I knew it wouldn't take you long to jump on this thread-lol. Stay close to Rome, he is someone to learn bye.

As I was unable with time to answer specific topics of debate or discussion, I do hope that all of you take a breather and calm down some. It would be good if we can stick to the issues at hand and not bash this teamster or that teamster and make pop shots and/or call people na sayers, or what have you,etc. This only brings up those that defend and attack back and it goes around and around like a merry go round! In which goes no where, but a long thread of bashing and it's not productive.

I have a lot to do in the next week,but I hope to see some positive debate or conversation, compared in the past few days. We all have passion for our union movement, some of us get heated up faster than others do, but take time to think before you respond and for those wanting to make pop shots, take it to the smack forum, as this is election time and no reason to put down or make fowl language to any Teamster! If and when you start off a topic of conversation like that with Fowl language what do you think will be the response?--Exactly, just what you had in the past few days here. Non productive threads. We may be Teamsters, but we were not born in a barn. There is a way to indicate what you want to express in a conceise manner of speaking and correspondence communication. Otherwise, we throw up our arms and say "why bother" if threads get out of control and off topic in negative ways.

Remember.. Good leadership is not bashing opposition, yet leading members, others, in positive ways.

Costal.

[Lando]

Wow, where do start?

Dump, the union is not financially destroyed. As I pointed out early and no one commented on regarding Transportation in this country it has affected us in a serious way. Our revenue is down because of it. We are a non profit organization and I am sorry but the finances are clearly a Keegel responsibility under the constitution. I am not blaming him for anything because he nor Hoffa has ruined us financially. If we believe that then it is Keegels job under the constitution. That is a fact. Yes the budgets have been cut, OUR REVENUE IS DOWN HELLO! you have to do that. Laying off staff is our you cut a budget in a service organization. The Departments are servicing the members and respond to the Local needs.

The largest dues increase in our union was structured to build the strike fund that you obviously pointed out has been built, dedicate money to organizing and the biggest part STAYED AT THE LOCALS!!!!! Did everyone forget that?

You say "I don't know the importance of organizing in core industries". I have organized more workers in core industries than you have members in your local. I understand organizing along with it's difficulties. I will not try to convince you of something that you don't want to understand. For those of us that have been very successful in organizing core industries it's frustrating to see and hear the general ignorance in the approach to it.

Hoffa prioritized it and that's a fact. No GP has done that since his father.

I pointed out the areas we have organized in our core industries and that's a fact. A lot of those were negotiated into Teamster pension plans. That is a fact..

The pension plans now....... The plans have been hurt by the lack of organizing for more than 30 years by not bringing more members into it, however the funds have a responsibility to maintain themselves within the means of their revenue. Why didn't the West have the same problem as the Central. Better leadership and less risky investments. Gegare allowed UPS to exit and as you admitted made them pay more to do so. The plan had problems before the exit and we both know the exit isn't the problem. UPS will not exit the West. No reason to and there would be a strike over that.

TAPP? Isn't that the supplemental plan for staff that is a second or third pension plan for us. It was stopped in 1995, that was before Hoffa was in charge and it was stopped because most believed multiple pensions for union staff was a bit excessive. I know what it is but wasn't aware of the reasoning for not funding. On the surface you talk about spending more money on this, don't reduce staff, criticizing budget cuts. If Hoffa did what you want we would be in bankruptcy. Cutting the budget and reducing staff is the responsible thing to do right now.

Organizing solves all these problems. Hoffa prioritized it with success. The Farm Team needs to go not Hoffa. Yes the organizing can focus more on core industries and should do more. Gegare has no idea how to do this, NO IDEA!!!

The difference in this debate is that I will accept the points of my candidates short comings and you don't. When someone needs help we step up to the plate and make it happen. No one person can do everything. Hoffa has done what we asked and prioritized the areas of our union that needed to be. He prioritized organizing and now we need to to even more.

Your comments about UPS Freight are disgusting. Those members are happy to be Teamsters and are building a contract over time. I am sorry it wasn't NMFA in the fist contract. That is not a reality and it's fantastical. You say Hoffa didn't organize in a core industry and when he did organize 12000 members it's not good enough. Everyone has to start somewhere and first contracts have escaped us for more than 30 years. You cannot shove an industry standard down a companies throat when we don't have control over a large majority of it. It doesn't work.

Hoffa Sr always said get the contract! Make the deal improve it over time. Get them the protection of collective bargaining and then use the muscle to make it better. Get them paying dues first and then get them to fight to something better. They will respect it more. That is from the greatest Teamster that ever lived. The man that changed the labor movement and made the Teamsters a household name. He gave his life for us, for his family and for our families. Millions of people have benefited from his drive and the basics of what he did to help build this union are principles that we should follow.

IBBadDude I too am very proud to be a Teamster!!!

I also love my union!!!

I refuse to tear down my union I will make it stronger.

[RealTeam]

<<Areas of Responsibility

Leadership

As Indicated in Article VII of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Constitution

General Duties

Article VII, Section 1.

The General Secretary-Treasurer shall be custodian of all of the properties, funds, securities, and assets of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters wherever located. He shall conduct all financial correspondence involving or affecting the International Union and all financial correspondence between the International Union and any affiliate or subordinate body of the International Union, and his signature shall, as a ministerial act, be required on all instruments, documents, deeds, or other papers of any nature whatsoever requiring or involving the investment of any of the funds of the International Union. The General Secretary-Treasurer shall keep a correct record of the proceedings of the Conventions of the International Union and of each meeting of the General Executive Board, preserve all important documents, papers, letters received, and copies of all important letters involving the International Union and which pertain to the functions and responsibilities of the Office of the General Secretary-Treasurer. He shall supply each delegate to the Convention of the International Union with a copy of the correct record of the proceedings of any such Convention as soon as is practicable following the Convention and shall supply each member of the General Executive Board with a correct copy of the minutes of each meeting of the General Executive Board as soon as is practicable following the meeting.

Section 2.

• The General Secretary-Treasurer shall have primary responsibility for the payment from the general fund of all financial obligations, commitments, and expenditures of the International Union. Requests or requirements for payments from the general fund shall be submitted to the General Secretary-Treasurer and shall be supported by written authorization in the form of statement, bill, invoice, voucher, disbursement authorization, or similar written instrument. All such requests or requirements for payment from the general fund as indicated above shall, prior to payment, be reviewed and approved as to the validity of such claim by the General President and as to the adequacy of supporting data by the General President and the General Secretary-Treasurer or by representatives duly appointed by each, provided such representatives are appropriately bonded. Following approval as set forth above, the General Secretary-Treasurer shall make payment by check under his individual signature for the following classes of financial obligations of the International Union:
  • Routine or recurring expenditures incurred in the operation of the General President's and the General Secretary-Treasurer's offices such as general office expenses, administrative and clerical salaries, building maintenance expenses, salaries or compensation of officers, organizers and other representatives or staff members of the International Union, including expenses of such individuals as authorized by the International Constitution, real and personal property taxes, and other types of taxes, interest payments, and all other similar regularly recurring expenses of the International Union, provided that the General Executive Board shall first have given general authorization for payment of such type of financial obligations.
  • Expenditures such as out-of-work benefits, or advances or payments to Trade Conferences or Divisions, Local Unions or Joint Councils, and other similar specific expenditures all of which have, prior to payment thereof, been specifically authorized by the General Executive Board or this Constitution.
• All expenditures from the general fund, other than those provided in 2(a) above, relating to the operation of the International Union, including, but not limited to, expenditures to further the Objects of this International Union as set forth in Article I, Section 2 herein, shall be approved by the General President and the General Secretary-Treasurer. Checks in payment of such expenditures shall be signed by the General President and the General Secretary-Treasurer. In the event of disagreement between the General President and the General Secretary-Treasurer concerning the making of any payment, the matter shall be submitted to the General Executive Board for determination, which determination shall be final and binding.>>

This, as well as the entire IBT Constitution, can be viewed at: http://www.teamster....on_June2006.pdf

[coastal]

Lando,... Just wanted to say, thank you brother for trying to start and stick to a few topics of conversation on your last above post that you want to discuss, debate and/or express and have others respond to. Whether I agree to disagree with you or not (On the thread)on some topics is not the issue, I just briefly viewed/scanned your post with my eyes and noticed you took the time to try and talk of some of the topics, even if some names were mentioned briefly in order to discuss the thread on topics,(sometimes that is necessary) but you did not do it that negatively, and I just wanted to say thanks for trying to discuss the issues without getting heated as hopefully others will follow the same way too. I see Realteam put in his comments, but not negatively either and hopefully we "ALL" can start to discuss threads on the topics at hand for positive results. I noticed no one really responded to you as of yet, but hopefully some will,(on topics not bashing people)and I will respond when I can,(or next week better for me) but right now I don't have much time this week or next week yet to only view and respond briefly, as I'm in the process of moving. We all know how much fun that is??-not much fun at all. Packing moving boxes,etc and business matters and my time is limited on being on t-net. Anyways, I just wanted to say that to you as I appreciate your effort(as you mentioned before) in where to start?-on so many topics,etc. But you tried and you did stick to a few areas and I wanted to comment on that as it is in a positive direction for threads discussions. Meaning your effort did not go unnoticed.