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When Ups Lies To Terminate


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#1 ArmyOfOne

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Posted November 16 2008 - 11:02 AM

I stumbled across the termination post by a “Susan” wherein she claims a termination was upheld by an arbitrator for a rear end collision. The replying post where fascinating in that there where such a diversity of opinions made. I think it ended prematurely with one camp telling us of the hopelessness of re-fighting in court and another resigned to a grievance process that allows members to get shafted.

Neither one is right. When management bases there termination on facts they pull out of there backside, then make them pony that up in real documents. How, you may say, by certified letter to your local labor relations manager and in the Atlanta office. You demand your complete employment file, paper and digital, to date! This must encompass all documents they intend to use at your hearing.

This is all about controlling what you can control.

Now every piece of evidence they present at a panel hearing they didn’t give you becomes a point of an arbitration appeal.

Demand that your hearing be either recorded or have a stenographer present, through certified letters to the union and the company. Failure to do so becomes a point of arbitration appeal.

By appeal I mean in Federal court and/or the NLRB. One can sue an abitrator as well as the union and company.

If you’re off the job immediately apply for unemployment benefits. The state unemployment office will conduct a hearing (UPS will deny a claim) and the State doesn’t operate like a Kangaroo court. They have real rules of evidence and real record keeping. UPS management will have only one response to that...OUCH!!!

Now about “binding arbitration” and the “trilogy of steel workers” and the like.

Arbitration is all about judicial economy. It was created to reduce the case loads in civil courts. Although the rules of evidence and procedures in arbitration are and may not be exactly like a civil court they must be a “reasonable” facsimile. Arbitrators are lawyers and are officers of the court. They have to act in the best interest of justice. They are duty bound to the letter and "SPIRT" of a contract. What isn't defind blow by blow can be clearly implied. There is no such thing as binding being really binding.

Business agents on the other hand don’t have to be even competent; in fact they can even be negligent and still be right as rain with the NLRB. That’s why preparation for a hearing is everything. YOU SHOULD DEMAND FROM THE UNION AND THE COMPANY A COPY OF THE ARBITRATION PANEL "RULES AND PROCEDURES."

So, before you get to a hearing you need to:

1) Demand everything under the sun that has anything to do with you case in certified letter to the company and the union. Witnesses, reports, and employee record of similar situation and disciplinary actions taken against them, to name just a few.
2) If your “charges” are misconduct or gross misconduct, then demand legal representation be present by certified letter to the union and compnay whether they agree with it or not.
3) Sit down with your BA and ask them how they are going to respond to evidence not presented prior to hearing and to verbal accusation made at the hearing. You should hear back from them “I will challenge them on every letter and word utter for proof!"

At the hearing make sure you highlight to the arbitrator all evidence you demanded and where not provided. All accusation and evidence UPS presented and provided no proof of. What doesn’t get challenged get accepted. An arbitrator when given an equal balance of evidence for the company and the employee will rule in the company favor 100% of the time. You can’t let a stone go unturned.

Now that I have said this I interested in hearing other points of view regarding my post. I not a lawyer but I been around. One more thing everyone has civil rights; even white males. It’s called reverse discrimination. That’s why you want all the records of as many employees disciplined or not for similar infraction. Not just locally but nationally. I don’t care how long it takes or how many pieces of paper it will generate, it’s all worth it. It forces the compnay to define there motives. You go after UPS like bull in a china shop. UPS will fight tooth and nail to keep anything that resembles REAL evidence of there dishonesty out of the public eye, and thats you leverage.

In conclusion if your some jackass employee looking to skate under or around the rules or screwed up and don’t want to admit it, then the preceding topic isn’t for you. This is for hard working members who find themselves in the vise of a UPS vendetta.

#2 BCFan

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Posted November 18 2008 - 07:15 PM

thank you ....really ..thank you Army!!!!! BC

#3 jimbo

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Posted November 22 2008 - 05:27 AM

Yes, thanks for the info. No doubt that is the way it should be. I agree with you the original intent for arbitration was to economize the judicial process. But,what it now is, in some cases, is a mockery of a judicial process. (witholding evidence, mail order witnesses, denying a union member his contractual bill of rights, to name a few examples) Now, it is a way to circumvent a workers right to due process. It's where treason, quackery, incompetence, and unprofessionalism actually rule.

Arbitration for the worker subsitutes, the reality of due process, for an uncivilized, "anything goes", "make the rules as we go", kangaroo court.

IF ARBITRATION IS NOT REALLY LEGAL AND BINDING, THEN WHY DOES IT SAY IT IS IN OUR CONTRACT? The real reason for arbitration is that it SERVES THE EMPLOYER. If it did not, it wouldn't be allowed. It also serves corrupt unions. It might sometimes pretend to serve the worker, but the reality is, that it's not the worker who puts on the cases for arbitration. Thus, the worker is at the bottom of the feeding chain here.

A union that would allow an arbitration clause in it's contract, "as legal and binding" in my opinion, cannot have the workers best interest at heart. Hell, as far as I know none union workers (like WalMart) have to sign arbitration agreements. You would think unionized workers would have something, ...something,...err..a little less arbitrary!

BTY, I wish it really were that easy to "demand" and get copies of your hearing transcripts and other pertinent documents on your case.

No thanks! I will keep my freedom, my rights, and my money. You can keep the CHANGE!

#4 ArmyOfOne

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Posted November 27 2008 - 05:40 PM

Yes, thanks for the info. No doubt that is the way it should be. I agree with you the original intent for arbitration was to economize the judicial process. But,what it now is, in some cases, is a mockery of a judicial process. (witholding evidence, mail order witnesses, denying a union member his contractual bill of rights, to name a few examples) Now, it is a way to circumvent a workers right to due process. It's where treason, quackery, incompetence, and unprofessionalism actually rule.

Arbitration for the worker subsitutes, the reality of due process, for an uncivilized, "anything goes", "make the rules as we go", kangaroo court.

IF ARBITRATION IS NOT REALLY LEGAL AND BINDING, THEN WHY DOES IT SAY IT IS IN OUR CONTRACT? The real reason for arbitration is that it SERVES THE EMPLOYER. If it did not, it wouldn't be allowed. It also serves corrupt unions. It might sometimes pretend to serve the worker, but the reality is, that it's not the worker who puts on the cases for arbitration. Thus, the worker is at the bottom of the feeding chain here.

A union that would allow an arbitration clause in it's contract, "as legal and binding" in my opinion, cannot have the workers best interest at heart. Hell, as far as I know none union workers (like WalMart) have to sign arbitration agreements. You would think unionized workers would have something, ...something,...err..a little less arbitrary!

BTY, I wish it really were that easy to "demand" and get copies of your hearing transcripts and other pertinent documents on your case.




In today’s legal environment cases won by employee against there employer are a tiny tiny fraction. You almost always fight an uphill battle against incredible odds. One is an employee of an employer not the other way around first and foremost. What my point has been is to not let go unchallenged an employer terminating you under false motives.

Your employee record is not a private collection of documents, it a very real public face that follows you every where you go, for the rest of your life. Future employers, credit rating agency, housing, are all increasing there scrutiny of character records. The mistake most people make is underestimating the seriousness of the situation.

It’s not an option not to pull out every ounce of adrenaline for a fight and put it on the table. Their game is to get you to quit the fight or out spend you. You have to acquire all the documentation you can during this process to better sell your case to a lawyer post hearing. When that hearing is over the compnay nor the union are your friends and will CYA all the way. Files become lost, missing, or misplaced by the compnay and the union.

The second biggest mistake people make is not being willing to spend money to fight them. Being willing to spend a couple thousand dollars being counseled by labor attorneys with NLRB experience could mean the difference of being left on the corner with nothing or being left there with something. You should fight to win but prepare yourself for a settlement or losing. An attorney advises on your discovery requests and having his letter head on them, early if not from the start, puts everyone in a “"don’t screw up"” mode. If the company case is based on a lie then you've got some real traction . Its up to you to keep asking the question...why!


#5 TA

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Posted December 06 2008 - 09:59 PM

Yes, thanks for the info. No doubt that is the way it should be. I agree with you the original intent for arbitration was to economize the judicial process. But,what it now is, in some cases, is a mockery of a judicial process. (witholding evidence, mail order witnesses, denying a union member his contractual bill of rights, to name a few examples) Now, it is a way to circumvent a workers right to due process. It's where treason, quackery, incompetence, and unprofessionalism actually rule.

Arbitration for the worker subsitutes, the reality of due process, for an uncivilized, "anything goes", "make the rules as we go", kangaroo court.

IF ARBITRATION IS NOT REALLY LEGAL AND BINDING, THEN WHY DOES IT SAY IT IS IN OUR CONTRACT? The real reason for arbitration is that it SERVES THE EMPLOYER. If it did not, it wouldn't be allowed. It also serves corrupt unions. It might sometimes pretend to serve the worker, but the reality is, that it's not the worker who puts on the cases for arbitration. Thus, the worker is at the bottom of the feeding chain here.

A union that would allow an arbitration clause in it's contract, "as legal and binding" in my opinion, cannot have the workers best interest at heart. Hell, as far as I know none union workers (like WalMart) have to sign arbitration agreements. You would think unionized workers would have something, ...something,...err..a little less arbitrary!

BTY, I wish it really were that easy to "demand" and get copies of your hearing transcripts and other pertinent documents on your case.


Thank goodness that jimbo didn't have his case heard by an arbitrator; he said his case was heard by a grievance panel, who probably put a lot of effort to try to save his drug-addled ass. Unfortunately they couldn't do much with 2 failed drug tests? So sad!

#6 jimbo

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Posted December 26 2008 - 08:07 AM

Thank goodness that jimbo didn't have his case heard by an arbitrator; he said his case was heard by a grievance panel, who probably put a lot of effort to try to save his drug-addled ass. Unfortunately they couldn't do much with 2 failed drug tests? So sad!


Others have tried to tell me "TA" the chief business agent for a local here in the west who's initials are also "TA" :twisted: . I have a big problem with that. At some point even a **** BA would at some point have to at least pretend to have an interest other than hate of teamsters. TA has shown over and over again TA's inability to have an interest outside of his single theme box of hate for other teamsters and former teamsters. It's something he simply cannot do even at gunpoint. The simple sadness of the whole thing is that's all he has ever done on TNet is day after day post after post, SOS of hateing other teamsters,Yacky u de yack from the very first post to his very last post is his hatered of teamsters. It never ever stops, the continual spamming of his hate of teamsters on this website. Nothing is ever new. Like an old worn out joke that everyone has heard a thousand times over, TA is there to tell it again and again. So very few things in life actually make him giggle he is obsessed to spaming them over and over again. To stupid to realize he is offering nothing new.

TA never bad mouths management. No, it's always teamsters especially rank and file teamsters who are at fault. Even before the facts are even presented TA is there blaming teamsters.

One could make a case for him only hates TDU and Ron Carey. That would be a mistake. I am not TDU or Ron Carey. Neither are most other teamsters he hates. All you really have to do is just be a teamster that's all. He just hates teamsters, period.

You think a union contract should be followed, you think a teamster should be permitted a fair trial as described in the contract? The mere mention of such a thing will put you on TA's hate list. Don't believe me, try it out for size. The one thing this ape cannot stand is the idea of a group of workers having a say over their working conditions. What we know as a union or the foundations of a union is the very gounds for his hate of teamsters

This TA character came out of the womb hateing, and he will die hateing, and he will be remembered hateing. Hate is all he knows. No mystery here at all. Want to know what TA talked about last year? It's the same thing he talked about last week..... Hate! Want to know what TA will be talking about next month?......Hate. Don't believe me? access his posts and find out for yourself. TA has never been happy and it shows. This is why he hides behind anonymity. Because he knows how miserable he makes those feel around him. He knows what crimes of his would be known if he himself were known. Here is someone who has shown over and over again he has alot to hide especially from teamsters. Given the chance, his associates would verify how disliked and how anti teamster he really is.

What use is someone to anyone that is only capable of hate? What use, what value can be exchanged with those who find more in life than hate. How must a family member feel? Do they wish he would just die and leave them alone. It's good this creep remains anominous. His cowardice shields him from truth. Here is someone, or something, with an enormous amount of guilt and crimes many of which are no doubt crimes against the teamsters union.

It's just as well you keep your identity hidden. The image you try push on this website is sickening enough. To see you in real life would explode the barf meter.

This idiot hates teamsters. He has shown he will always take the side of management. Is it any wonder this self proclaimed "teamster" who, just happens to hate teamsters be ashamed to disclose what local union he is with. Maybe the answer is a bit to obvious. He is not a teamster. Just another clown who has a bone to pick with teamsters.

It has been said, to divide and conquer is the time tested way to bring something to it's knees. To divide and concquer is the instrument of management and union busters. It is the opposite of union solidarity. There is not a single member on this website who has outdone TA with promoting division amongst teamsters. On this website TA more than anyone has served as union buster. Read his posts and see for yourself.

No, TA is not a business agent, for the simple reason no teamster or group of teamsters are that stupid and TA simply has not got the smarts to even play the part. Even for a little while. He is not even a teamster and never has been.

To those who think I am bullshitting, go to, ------ members------TA-------posts. (Forget about "threads" TA is simply not capable of one without hate Which is the sum total of all his posts are about. All TA is really capable of doing is posting to others who are capable of starting one. Kinda like a parasite.) TA has to pick through the excretement of others for some tiny morsel chew on because he can't start anything on his on.

Only someone with a burning hatred for the Teamsters union would allow this baboon a position of power over other members. No one hates the teamsters that much, not even union busters. Hell no TA is not a business agent in the west or anywhere else on this planet.

Anyway, look over TA's posts for a better feel of what TA actually is and decide for yourself. You can even make a game of it. Pick any one of his 1800 plus posts, and find out what his message is. Now go to post # 457, 852, 1009, any number you want, you get the idea. What's his message, what is he trying to sell if it isn't hate?


No thanks! I will keep my freedom, my rights, and my money. You can keep the CHANGE!