Looking for a good Labor Lawyer in the central NJ area to consult about DHL's "bump and roll" process, which I believe is a violation of Local 295 contract. Any suggestions?
TeamsterUnity
0
Need Good Labor Lawyer Referral
Started by TeamsterUnity, Aug 24 2008 03:23 AM
10 replies to this topic
#2
-
- Members
-
- 2,373 posts
Veteran Member
Posted August 27 2008 - 04:19 PM
TeamsterUnity, on Aug 24 2008, 03:23 AM, said:
Looking for a good Labor Lawyer in the central NJ area to consult about DHL's "bump and roll" process, which I believe is a violation of Local 295 contract. Any suggestions?
TeamsterUnity
TeamsterUnity
Labor contracts are between the Union of record and the employer. The Union of record represents the workers and as such determines the interpretation of the contract from the workers perspective. It is a real reach for 'outside' counsel to usurp that authority. Just doesn't happen. In the case of national agreements eg DHL the Union's national authority makes the decision as well as the interpretation and they always have their own attorneys whether they be in house or outside contracted law firms and these are usually the best worker side attorneys that are available. By the way, I am not DHL and have no idea what "bump and roll' means.
alex y.
#3
-
- Members
- 15 posts
New Member
- Local Union Number:295
Posted August 27 2008 - 08:21 PM
alex_y, on Aug 27 2008, 08:19 PM, said:
Labor contracts are between the Union of record and the employer. The Union of record represents the workers and as such determines the interpretation of the contract from the workers perspective. It is a real reach for 'outside' counsel to usurp that authority. Just doesn't happen. In the case of national agreements eg DHL the Union's national authority makes the decision as well as the interpretation and they always have their own attorneys whether they be in house or outside contracted law firms and these are usually the best worker side attorneys that are available. By the way, I am not DHL and have no idea what "bump and roll' means.
It's a difficult situation. Company violating contract and Union allowing it in mistaken belief that violation will result in fewer layoffs. Union is misrepresenting members by not upholding contract terms. This violates Taft Hartley Act and members would need to file grievances to stop it. If Union fails to properly support the grievances then need to go to court under Section 301 alleging company violation of contract and unfair representation by the Union.
#4
-
- Members
-
- 944 posts
Tempered Member
- Gender:Male
- Location:uppa U.S.
- Local Union Number:25
Posted August 28 2008 - 02:04 AM
You can find a good labor lawyer who knows what can happen under the language of the new, historic DHL National contract.
The problem is they work for DHL.
The problem is they work for DHL.
OUR OFFICERS FOR OUR NEEDS
#5
-
- Members
-
- 109 posts
Member
Posted August 28 2008 - 12:27 PM
TeamsterUnity, on Aug 28 2008, 03:21 PM, said:
It's a difficult situation. Company violating contract and Union allowing it in mistaken belief that violation will result in fewer layoffs. Union is misrepresenting members by not upholding contract terms. This violates Taft Hartley Act and members would need to file grievances to stop it. If Union fails to properly support the grievances then need to go to court under Section 301 alleging company violation of contract and unfair representation by the Union.
I understand exactly what you're going through, however, in light of your personal belief about how union representation should be ... please understand that reaching out for a labor lawyer at this stage, will most likely be the worst investment you've ever made in your life. You already have a labor lawyer ... and a firm ... and an executive board that is highly capable. Yes, my friend, a firm that represents the interests of it's constituencies (you) better than most of them out there in the field of labor law today and an executive board that has dedicated itself to your best interest and the overwhelming interest of the local as a whole.
Injecting yourself in the issue is wise and thoughtful ... but when doing so ... please understand the stark difference's between your own personality; DHL's business; the Union's right to represent you; the Law; and the interpretation of the contract. Flippantly citing sections, allegations and violations is not going to sway anybody (company or union). Each party will do what it has in order to survive. And the union will definitely protect it's constituency (you) via it's understandings and contractual obligations. They will respectfully do this by upholding the obligations they were sworn in to protect (you).
And that's, that!
#6
-
- Members
- 15 posts
New Member
- Local Union Number:295
Posted August 28 2008 - 09:15 PM
NYIslandTmstr, on Aug 28 2008, 03:27 PM, said:
I understand exactly what you're going through, however, in light of your personal belief about how union representation should be ... please understand that reaching out for a labor lawyer at this stage, will most likely be the worst investment you've ever made in your life. You already have a labor lawyer ... and a firm ... and an executive board that is highly capable. Yes, my friend, a firm that represents the interests of it's constituencies (you) better than most of them out there in the field of labor law today and an executive board that has dedicated itself to your best interest and the overwhelming interest of the local as a whole.
Injecting yourself in the issue is wise and thoughtful ... but when doing so ... please understand the stark difference's between your own personality; DHL's business; the Union's right to represent you; the Law; and the interpretation of the contract. Flippantly citing sections, allegations and violations is not going to sway anybody (company or union). Each party will do what it has in order to survive. And the union will definitely protect it's constituency (you) via it's understandings and contractual obligations. They will respectfully do this by upholding the obligations they were sworn in to protect (you).
And that's, that!
Injecting yourself in the issue is wise and thoughtful ... but when doing so ... please understand the stark difference's between your own personality; DHL's business; the Union's right to represent you; the Law; and the interpretation of the contract. Flippantly citing sections, allegations and violations is not going to sway anybody (company or union). Each party will do what it has in order to survive. And the union will definitely protect it's constituency (you) via it's understandings and contractual obligations. They will respectfully do this by upholding the obligations they were sworn in to protect (you).
And that's, that!
NYIsland Tmstr
This won't be the first longshot I've bet on. I'm a handicapper and I don't make hunch bets. I have carefully studied the contract, read case law and arbitration decisions. I have consulted with other senior members. They support my position. I fervently hope that the Union will protect me and my fellow members by upholding the contract terms we paid them to get for us and continue to pay for them to enforce. I believe thay made a mistake and made an unfortunate and flawed accomodation with the company which violated our contract and hurt a lot of out junior members.
If they continue on this path they will hurt even more members and I will know it was not a mistake, but a deal to sell out the membership. Then we will go to war and a sharp lawyer will be of great value.
#7
-
- Members
-
- 359 posts
Member
- Location:San Francisco,CA
- Local Union Number:85
Posted August 28 2008 - 09:43 PM
TeamsterUnity, on Aug 28 2008, 10:15 PM, said:
NYIsland Tmstr
This won't be the first longshot I've bet on. I'm a handicapper and I don't make hunch bets. I have carefully studied the contract, read case law and arbitration decisions. I have consulted with other senior members. They support my position. I fervently hope that the Union will protect me and my fellow members by upholding the contract terms we paid them to get for us and continue to pay for them to enforce. I believe thay made a mistake and made an unfortunate and flawed accomodation with the company which violated our contract and hurt a lot of out junior members.
If they continue on this path they will hurt even more members and I will know it was not a mistake, but a deal to sell out the membership. Then we will go to war and a sharp lawyer will be of great value.
This won't be the first longshot I've bet on. I'm a handicapper and I don't make hunch bets. I have carefully studied the contract, read case law and arbitration decisions. I have consulted with other senior members. They support my position. I fervently hope that the Union will protect me and my fellow members by upholding the contract terms we paid them to get for us and continue to pay for them to enforce. I believe thay made a mistake and made an unfortunate and flawed accomodation with the company which violated our contract and hurt a lot of out junior members.
If they continue on this path they will hurt even more members and I will know it was not a mistake, but a deal to sell out the membership. Then we will go to war and a sharp lawyer will be of great value.
Let's see how the rank and file members that actually work at DHL feel about this topic!!!!!!
#8
-
- Members
-
- 2,373 posts
Veteran Member
Posted August 29 2008 - 11:27 AM
NYIslandTmstr, on Aug 28 2008, 01:27 PM, said:
I understand exactly what you're going through, however, in light of your personal belief about how union representation should be ... please understand that reaching out for a labor lawyer at this stage, will most likely be the worst investment you've ever made in your life. You already have a labor lawyer ... and a firm ... and an executive board that is highly capable. Yes, my friend, a firm that represents the interests of it's constituencies (you) better than most of them out there in the field of labor law today and an executive board that has dedicated itself to your best interest and the overwhelming interest of the local as a whole.
Injecting yourself in the issue is wise and thoughtful ... but when doing so ... please understand the stark difference's between your own personality; DHL's business; the Union's right to represent you; the Law; and the interpretation of the contract. Flippantly citing sections, allegations and violations is not going to sway anybody (company or union). Each party will do what it has in order to survive. And the union will definitely protect it's constituency (you) via it's understandings and contractual obligations. They will respectfully do this by upholding the obligations they were sworn in to protect (you).
And that's, that!
Injecting yourself in the issue is wise and thoughtful ... but when doing so ... please understand the stark difference's between your own personality; DHL's business; the Union's right to represent you; the Law; and the interpretation of the contract. Flippantly citing sections, allegations and violations is not going to sway anybody (company or union). Each party will do what it has in order to survive. And the union will definitely protect it's constituency (you) via it's understandings and contractual obligations. They will respectfully do this by upholding the obligations they were sworn in to protect (you).
And that's, that!
Hey NYislandT, thats good advice and hopefully it will at some point be take. There is a time and place to seek outside counsel and goverment redress but this certainly does not sound like such an instance. Going outside the system for resolution is an absolute waste of time and resources. Not saying who is right or wrong here as I know little to nothing about the issue, except I do know that just as George Bush has the right to make flawed decisions within his authority, it is the Union's right to make decisions right or wrong on behalf of its membership. Right or wrong unfortunately is often a matter of perspective and interest.
alex y.
#9
-
- Members
- 15 posts
New Member
- Local Union Number:295
Posted August 29 2008 - 08:50 PM
alex_y, on Aug 29 2008, 03:27 PM, said:
Hey NYislandT, thats good advice and hopefully it will at some point be take. There is a time and place to seek outside counsel and goverment redress but this certainly does not sound like such an instance. Going outside the system for resolution is an absolute waste of time and resources. Not saying who is right or wrong here as I know little to nothing about the issue, except I do know that just as George Bush has the right to make flawed decisions within his authority, it is the Union's right to make decisions right or wrong on behalf of its membership. Right or wrong unfortunately is often a matter of perspective and interest.
I won't be taking your advice boys! Found out today 440 will be laid off and 600 will be put in the "Bump and Roll" grinder by Local 295. It's WAR now and I'm going for DHL's Nuts AND Local 295's NUTS! Local 295 sold us out, probably in return for a sweeter pension contribution in the next contract.
#10
-
- Members
-
- 944 posts
Tempered Member
- Gender:Male
- Location:uppa U.S.
- Local Union Number:25
Posted August 31 2008 - 11:17 AM
sfoairborne, on Aug 29 2008, 01:43 AM, said:
Can anyone post a poll on this subject?
Let's see how the rank and file members that actually work at DHL feel about this topic!!!!!!
Let's see how the rank and file members that actually work at DHL feel about this topic!!!!!!
They (the IBT) even had a creep with NO DHL members in his local deal this out with P. Burke from the company's labor crunching department. Many of us saw it coming and asked you others who still had a contract to work out things ahead of time.
I'm not saying I told you so...........
The IBT didn't even make it easy on our local leaders, they left many issues open and up to the locals. By far the worst process I have had to deal with in my time here. They suck for starting the negotiations over 7 monthe before we found out. Why do you suppose that was?
80% of a 65 return vote tally, what a disgrace.
We don't need a poll (pole) we got one already.
OUR OFFICERS FOR OUR NEEDS
#11
-
- Members
- 15 posts
New Member
- Local Union Number:295
Posted August 31 2008 - 01:43 PM
I'm depressed! See what is coming (mass layoffs, forced relocations and/ or demotions, forced "voluntary quits" to screw people out if unemployment, forced overtime shifts, disciline letter harassment campaigns from management, etc.) and it makes me angry as hell!
I read the 295 contract and know that none of this is supposed to be happening. But the contract is only respected and and honored if the Union AND the membership turns that piece of paper into something more than a rag to wipe your ass with!
The Local 295 boys have, in my opinion, sold us out. We have a great contract that makes mass layoffs IMPOSSIBLE because the interacting terms of the contract prevent DHL from doing barn by barn layoffs, forced demotions, or forcing relocations to fill in the people needed to keep the operations going.The Bump and Roll is a forced relocation, forced demotion, and illegal layoff scheme. It violates the contract in half a dozen ways and yet they are actively HELPING DHL to implement it.
As for the membership, I don't see anger. I see resignation and acceptance. I see no one that wants to stand up for themselves and fight the Union to force them to do their job or to fight DHL to stop the screwing of the membership.
I'm depressed but I'm going to fight! I'm going to war with the Local and with DHL.
My War Plan to date:
1/ Grievances against Bump and Roll- Get as many people as possible to file grievances (I will write and distribute) against the Bump and Roll.
2/ File Charges with IBT against Local 295 President for refusing to honor his Oath.
3/ March in Labor Day Parade on September 6 behind Local 295 President Lou Calemine with signs protesting the Bump and Roll.
4/ Distribute letters urging members to protest the Bump and Roll and contract violations to Local 295
5/ Lawsuits against DHL and Union as a last resort if all else fails.
I'll do this on my own. Any help appreciated. TeamsterPower at tuffmugster@comcast.net
I read the 295 contract and know that none of this is supposed to be happening. But the contract is only respected and and honored if the Union AND the membership turns that piece of paper into something more than a rag to wipe your ass with!
The Local 295 boys have, in my opinion, sold us out. We have a great contract that makes mass layoffs IMPOSSIBLE because the interacting terms of the contract prevent DHL from doing barn by barn layoffs, forced demotions, or forcing relocations to fill in the people needed to keep the operations going.The Bump and Roll is a forced relocation, forced demotion, and illegal layoff scheme. It violates the contract in half a dozen ways and yet they are actively HELPING DHL to implement it.
As for the membership, I don't see anger. I see resignation and acceptance. I see no one that wants to stand up for themselves and fight the Union to force them to do their job or to fight DHL to stop the screwing of the membership.
I'm depressed but I'm going to fight! I'm going to war with the Local and with DHL.
My War Plan to date:
1/ Grievances against Bump and Roll- Get as many people as possible to file grievances (I will write and distribute) against the Bump and Roll.
2/ File Charges with IBT against Local 295 President for refusing to honor his Oath.
3/ March in Labor Day Parade on September 6 behind Local 295 President Lou Calemine with signs protesting the Bump and Roll.
4/ Distribute letters urging members to protest the Bump and Roll and contract violations to Local 295
5/ Lawsuits against DHL and Union as a last resort if all else fails.
I'll do this on my own. Any help appreciated. TeamsterPower at tuffmugster@comcast.net
