75 replies to this topic

[alex_y]

Ohio Clerk, I read your post several times and got more POed each time. That's an incredible screwing to have one's pension diminished 90% because of early retirement penalties. That is an absolutely unreasonable reduction, assuming that it is accurate. Has this reduction penalty system been challenged in court? I am assuming that this is a 'Company' plan that is neither jointly administered nor jointly trusteed. If it has not been challenged in court, it should be.

alex y.

[ohioclerk]

alex y,

The reduction formula of six percent per year prior to age 65 is under the company plan, a large majority of UPS full timers are orginally vested in that plan. Have stated this before but the full timers at UPS are generally handicapped under the teamster plans because of this, guessing they are about 10 years behind their counterparts from other companies. The high seniority part timers who aquired a full time position through contractual improvements particularly in the "97" agreement would of been better off stating part time as far as retirement and health and welfare coverage. Look at master agreement covering part time pension: 30 years, any age = 1650, 35 years any age = 1950. In our area the company controls the health and welfare for all retirees and it is currently 50 dollars per month, believing that is locked in till "08".

When this central state problem was introduced, the plan trustees actually tried to go against the 2002 contract and reduce the vested times for all UPSers who were under the company plan, using a old formula to keep us in their plan longer. The international to their credit challenged it and followed the master agreement. People keep thinking that this issue about our pensions did not play till "97", but came across records of the company actually trying to take over the pension in "93", this has been a much longer battle then people might think.

Because the part time pension benefit is under master language and clearly stated it is not under the reduction ratio prior to age 65, only the full time teamster employees are penalized. I do not know if this was considered in the last contract, could be to prevent the exodus of UPS participants who would eligible for early retirement. Can't blame them, considering the best way to bring the trust back on line is to keep us in it longer.

What is happening is Washington with this pension reform is the turning point with this issue, you can figure that UPS and the Teamsters are lobbying 24/7 on this bill. Just got some info on the bill not going into effect till "07" instead of "06", do not know if this is good or bad news, but people who are concerned better start paying attention, have a gut feeling that the little guy is going to be screwed. Just look at the major corporations already trying to bail out of their benefit programs and placing it on the the tax payers, sure looks like this was planned out years ago.

What will happen if the central states plan is taken over by the feds, from my limited understanding all parties will have to turn over their assets to prevent this from happening, so ALL pension and health and welfare plans under control of the Teamsters and United Parcel Service will be subject to cover the promised benefit for their members and employees. This includes managements and other trusts covered by the teamsters, so no one is safe if this occurs, basically we are in the same boat on this one.

[Teamsterman]

One thing nobody mentions is when the central states or any other multi-employer fund falls below a certain level (59% in central states case ((I believe)).) The underfunding has to be made up by the employers of those funds (unless they file bankrupcy). So the retirement funds we are in now WILL NOT be taken over by the feds anytime soon. But that is not saying that there are not problems that we all need to address.

[WhatCanIDoForYou]

The drivers do make a lot more money than us part timers. You could argue that thier jobs are harder but I would beg to differ. They get longer hours which I envy greatly. They arent cooped up in a warehouse. And the greatest part is they dont have to do nonstop physical labor for 5 hours straight. They get twice our pay and they get to drive. When you are in a trailer for 5 hours working your ass off in 100 degree weather or on the flipside 10 degree weather you begin to wonder if its even worth the 10 bucks an hour. I would gladly do a drivers job for my same 12 bucks an hour because to me getting to sit down in the fresh air is much better than what I do. And dont say I dont know what its like for the drivers. I do drivers helper every peak season and I ride with them for 12 hours and at the end of the day it sadens me that I have to go back to the warehouse after peak. They got it much better than the part timers. Its impossible to become a driver from a part time position now so guys that been there 7-10 years on part time are in the back of a long line of people looking to go full time. Which means people like me who have been there for 2-3 years have absoletly no hope of ever going full time.
They take you off the street when your 18 and then you sweat your youth away for 7 years only to be told that you will not be able to move up. Drivers complain about their jobs but I must ask would you trade spots with us if you could keep your hours and pay but you have to work in the hub? I think not. Drivers have us bested in all departments while we do the grunt work. I would like any one of your many advantages. I would love 23 an hour. I would love to do your job. I would love to have your hours. Give me any one of those things and I am happy. Instead we get no hours, no money, and our job is borderline slave labor. It sucks because after my shift I am worn out but I have to go to another job to make ends meet. I just dont want to hear drivers complaining about anything ever. Because you guys live like kings compared to us.

[overallowed]

WhatCanIDoForYou, on March 14 2010 - 09:41 AM, said:

The drivers do make a lot more money than us part timers. You could argue that thier jobs are harder but I would beg to differ. They get longer hours which I envy greatly. They arent cooped up in a warehouse. And the greatest part is they dont have to do nonstop physical labor for 5 hours straight. They get twice our pay and they get to drive. When you are in a trailer for 5 hours working your ass off in 100 degree weather or on the flipside 10 degree weather you begin to wonder if its even worth the 10 bucks an hour. I would gladly do a drivers job for my same 12 bucks an hour because to me getting to sit down in the fresh air is much better than what I do. And dont say I dont know what its like for the drivers. I do drivers helper every peak season and I ride with them for 12 hours and at the end of the day it sadens me that I have to go back to the warehouse after peak. They got it much better than the part timers. Its impossible to become a driver from a part time position now so guys that been there 7-10 years on part time are in the back of a long line of people looking to go full time. Which means people like me who have been there for 2-3 years have absoletly no hope of ever going full time.
They take you off the street when your 18 and then you sweat your youth away for 7 years only to be told that you will not be able to move up. Drivers complain about their jobs but I must ask would you trade spots with us if you could keep your hours and pay but you have to work in the hub? I think not. Drivers have us bested in all departments while we do the grunt work. I would like any one of your many advantages. I would love 23 an hour. I would love to do your job. I would love to have your hours. Give me any one of those things and I am happy. Instead we get no hours, no money, and our job is borderline slave labor. It sucks because after my shift I am worn out but I have to go to another job to make ends meet. I just dont want to hear drivers complaining about anything ever. Because you guys live like kings compared to us.

Well , look who is doing the complaining now? You make a lot of points that are right on but remember this , most of us drivers did work part time. I pulled 7.5 years part time and use to work in the heat unloading feeders. You part timers are bordering on slave labor , I will be the first to agree with you. I thought so when I was part time as well. I will also tell you driving a UPS truck isn't living like a king. We pull long hours that get old. During the summer , it tops 110 ( with heat index ) in the back of that truck. We also have a ton of responsibility as well. If a part timer puts the wrong package on a package car , it gets missed and they get it the next day. If I deliver a package to the wrong house , that is probably gonna cost UPS at least a hundred bucks on a driver followup. Driving all day in heavy traffic is a ton of responsibility as well. Have an accident and you might seriously injure someone or kill someone. I use to think the same when I was part time but now since I been a driver for 16 years , it is a little different when you see things from the other side. As far as your comment about part timers having to work non stop for 5 hours , we work nonstop for at least 9 to 10 ( factor in an hour for lunch ) so it isn't all roses and peaches. But you guys are WAY under paid , I gotta give you that.

[BlackCloud]

I get paid so much because I come in an hour early, sort my truck on my own time, skip my lunch but show it in the board, and bring fresh coffee to the boss each day.

[overallowed]

BlackCloud, on March 24 2010 - 05:01 PM, said:

I get paid so much because I come in an hour early, sort my truck on my own time, skip my lunch but show it in the board, and bring fresh coffee to the boss each day.

LOL! Now BlackCloud , you know you are suppose to bring donuts with that coffee too. Gonna have to dock your pay.

[exojjl]

Anonymous, on September 26 2002 - 11:42 AM, said:

You guys are a bunch of assholes. I work my ***** ass off for this company and all I hear is that I make too much money.
<BR>
<BR>You ***** dumb ass wake up. We work for a multi BILLION dollar company that in spite of our high pay still spends millions on advertising and blows money on all kinds of other stupid shit.
<BR>
<BR>If I did not take my check they might for one example be able to hire many more supervisors that do NOTHING exept lie and cook the numbers every week like the ones that are there now.

Your driving job is NOT any easier than my part time job. I feel that I still deserve your guy's pay rate though. Working up though.
I know for a fact you are a UPS employee solely based off of the following statement "and blows money on all kinds of other stupid shit." Hell they could save so much money getting rid of those worthless idiots going around telling you how to do your job you already know how to do.

[exojjl]

overallowed, on March 14 2010 - 04:17 PM, said:

Well , look who is doing the complaining now? You make a lot of points that are right on but remember this , most of us drivers did work part time. I pulled 7.5 years part time and use to work in the heat unloading feeders. You part timers are bordering on slave labor , I will be the first to agree with you. I thought so when I was part time as well. I will also tell you driving a UPS truck isn't living like a king. We pull long hours that get old. During the summer , it tops 110 ( with heat index ) in the back of that truck. We also have a ton of responsibility as well. If a part timer puts the wrong package on a package car , it gets missed and they get it the next day. If I deliver a package to the wrong house , that is probably gonna cost UPS at least a hundred bucks on a driver followup. Driving all day in heavy traffic is a ton of responsibility as well. Have an accident and you might seriously injure someone or kill someone. I use to think the same when I was part time but now since I been a driver for 16 years , it is a little different when you see things from the other side. As far as your comment about part timers having to work non stop for 5 hours , we work nonstop for at least 9 to 10 ( factor in an hour for lunch ) so it isn't all roses and peaches. But you guys are WAY under paid , I gotta give you that.

He meant non stop 5 hours of lifting and handling several times more packages than a driver would in 10 hours.In 4 hours i handle 1200 or more packages which i know is 900 or 1000 more than a driver would handle in 10 hours. But driving you have to deal with other idiot drivers, thousands more than us part timers do seeing as we don't have to deal with that. And not to mention manuerving a big ass truck in often tight parking lots and dealing with people complaining about you parking for 30 seconds in the only available parking spot that is'nt even a parking spot. And not to mention your trucks are like ovens in the summertime. Our trailers are worse. They may be sitting in the yard all day. I am sure driving around helps cool the trucks. I know i can think of more reasons why driving is not an easy job. I have friends who are drivers who were once part timers. We swap stories and what it's like all the fucking time. Neither job is easier than the other.

[exojjl]

BlackCloud, on March 24 2010 - 05:01 PM, said:

I get paid so much because I come in an hour early, sort my truck on my own time, skip my lunch but show it in the board, and bring fresh coffee to the boss each day.

You bring fresh coffee to your boss each day...? Are you a spy?

[tiredinvegas]

WhatCanIDoForYou, on March 14 2010 - 09:41 AM, said:

The drivers do make a lot more money than us part timers. You could argue that thier jobs are harder but I would beg to differ. They get longer hours which I envy greatly. They arent cooped up in a warehouse. And the greatest part is they dont have to do nonstop physical labor for 5 hours straight. They get twice our pay and they get to drive. When you are in a trailer for 5 hours working your ass off in 100 degree weather or on the flipside 10 degree weather you begin to wonder if its even worth the 10 bucks an hour. I would gladly do a drivers job for my same 12 bucks an hour because to me getting to sit down in the fresh air is much better than what I do. And dont say I dont know what its like for the drivers. I do drivers helper every peak season and I ride with them for 12 hours and at the end of the day it sadens me that I have to go back to the warehouse after peak. They got it much better than the part timers. Its impossible to become a driver from a part time position now so guys that been there 7-10 years on part time are in the back of a long line of people looking to go full time. Which means people like me who have been there for 2-3 years have absoletly no hope of ever going full time.
They take you off the street when your 18 and then you sweat your youth away for 7 years only to be told that you will not be able to move up. Drivers complain about their jobs but I must ask would you trade spots with us if you could keep your hours and pay but you have to work in the hub? I think not. Drivers have us bested in all departments while we do the grunt work. I would like any one of your many advantages. I would love 23 an hour. I would love to do your job. I would love to have your hours. Give me any one of those things and I am happy. Instead we get no hours, no money, and our job is borderline slave labor. It sucks because after my shift I am worn out but I have to go to another job to make ends meet. I just dont want to hear drivers complaining about anything ever. Because you guys live like kings compared to us.

There are many choices in life and you made one. Your choice was to go to work for UPS as a part timer. There is no way I would go to work for anyone for the wages you make. I do not work for UPS but am a long time Teamster and ready for retirement. What I see is the younger generation willing to work for less and bitch about it but are not willing to fight like we did when we started. All these wages and working conditions did not come free there was a heavy price paid. We lost homes, cars, toys and our familys suffered while we were on strike and organizing new employers. If you want to have it better than you have it now you need to start taking action and quit crying about what someone else makes. You should be a real Teamster and be glad someone else is making a good living. Go to work and talk to your co-workers make them understand that you all have to get involved in your contracts and your negotiations and be willing to fight for what is right not just bitch about it but really fight. Be willing to be on the street for how ever long it takes. It is shamefull that UPS gets away with the part time situation as it is but only you can change it. You are the future of the Teamsters Union, you are the Union. STAND UP AND FIGHT.

[exojjl]

tiredinvegas, on June 29 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

There are many choices in life and you made one. Your choice was to go to work for UPS as a part timer. There is no way I would go to work for anyone for the wages you make. I do not work for UPS but am a long time Teamster and ready for retirement. What I see is the younger generation willing to work for less and bitch about it but are not willing to fight like we did when we started. All these wages and working conditions did not come free there was a heavy price paid. We lost homes, cars, toys and our familys suffered while we were on strike and organizing new employers. If you want to have it better than you have it now you need to start taking action and quit crying about what someone else makes. You should be a real Teamster and be glad someone else is making a good living. Go to work and talk to your co-workers make them understand that you all have to get involved in your contracts and your negotiations and be willing to fight for what is right not just bitch about it but really fight. Be willing to be on the street for how ever long it takes. It is shamefull that UPS gets away with the part time situation as it is but only you can change it. You are the future of the Teamsters Union, you are the Union. STAND UP AND FIGHT.

as a part-timer you make a really good point. I have never thought about it that way. I am not even sure how the fight would begin.

[West Coast]

tiredinvegas, on June 29 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

There are many choices in life and you made one. Your choice was to go to work for UPS as a part timer. There is no way I would go to work for anyone for the wages you make. I do not work for UPS but am a long time Teamster and ready for retirement. What I see is the younger generation willing to work for less and bitch about it but are not willing to fight like we did when we started. All these wages and working conditions did not come free there was a heavy price paid. We lost homes, cars, toys and our familys suffered while we were on strike and organizing new employers. If you want to have it better than you have it now you need to start taking action and quit crying about what someone else makes. You should be a real Teamster and be glad someone else is making a good living. Go to work and talk to your co-workers make them understand that you all have to get involved in your contracts and your negotiations and be willing to fight for what is right not just bitch about it but really fight. Be willing to be on the street for how ever long it takes. It is shamefull that UPS gets away with the part time situation as it is but only you can change it. You are the future of the Teamsters Union, you are the Union. STAND UP AND FIGHT.

Well said. There is entirely too much complaining and bitching on this site, and not enough positive advice and real Union attitudes.

[West Coast]

exojjl, on June 29 2010 - 11:06 PM, said:

as a part-timer you make a really good point. I have never thought about it that way. I am not even sure how the fight would begin.

Like Tired says, start talking to your fellow workers, especially the part-timers.
Then start going to your Local Union meetings. Start insisting that the part-timers need a better deal in the next UPS contract. Don't support any BA or Officer who won't support you.
Make some noise. The more you make prior to the next contract negotiation, nationwide, the more likely your issues will be dealt with.

[LeeRain]

Get a copy of Readers Digest (Sptember '05 I think) the $54,00.00 an hour CEO........and you think MY hourly wage, pension, health insurance, not to mention "free" cost saving suggestions are hurting company profits?

KISS MY RETIRED AND LOVING IT ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!