17 replies to this topic

[upsman8120]

DHL is not doing well in the US. With 11% domestic market share the company is hurting. Poor time in transit problems are costing them dearly. Projecting no US profits to well into 2007 or beyond. Their 1 billion initial US investment is not paying off, nor is their advertisement blitz. This country is proving to be a tougher battle field than DP anticipated!

[overseas_teamster]

Not to worry, give them time. They're a huge company with plenty of European profits to keep their American operation afloat.

In Europe DHL is king of the parcel business. They've got a lock on European international shipping. Don't forget that Europe has 450 million people, it is not a provincial hinterland. And DHL has long mastered the customs mazes. UPS is a small change player in the European market with very little public recognition. I've told people that I used to be a UPS driver and they look at me curiously. They have no idea what I'm talking about.

Reading the headline news on Teamsternet it looks like UPS is trying to make a big splash in Asia. Good strategy for them. They won't have as much competition from long established carriers who already have a lions share of the business.

[scb]

-overseas_teamster-

In terms of recognition, it may be that way in Moscow, but I don't see it as that way in DHL's homeland or in the bulk of Western Europe. There it seems that brown UPS vans are as ubiquitous as DHL's yellow ones...and perhaps more recognizable to the general public since DP has changed theirs over recent years, dropping the familiar post horn to reflect the DHL/WorldNet scheme, while UPS's has remained essentially the same. Nor do I think forget for a moment that DHL was forced to come over here because UPS was so successful - starting 30 years ago now - on their home turf.

In any case, if in comparison with UPS, you think DHL has a lock on international shipping, even within the European region, then I suggest you lift your head up and take a better look around. Check out Cologne/Bonn's activity and then compare it with Leipzig's...and then see if you're prepared to express the same opinion.

-scb-

[overseas_teamster]

I freely admit I haven't traveled through most of Europe. I've been in only Russia, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, and Azerbaijan. I've seen maybe 3 UPS trucks total in all those places.

But I've come into contact with oodles of Europeans from all kinds of places. They don't recognize UPS at all. They always go "huh?" And then I tell them it's a company like Fedex or DHL and they get the drift. Even with the Brits I get blank looks.

.....lifting my head.....looking around....seeing DHL trucks.

[scb]

-overseas_teamster-

I can only suggest that you actually look for yourself. As for what you've seen within the old Soviet Empire and Finland....well, I can't help but believe that, if true, - based on what I've actually SEEN (and been a part of, starting more than a quarter of a century ago now) in Western Europe - that's NOT representative of the Continent as whole, by any means.

I can't help but remember back, a few years ago (not long after Tom Hanks made his FedEx-in-Moscow appearance in "Castaway"), when a friend asked me to help him get a somewhat large wood carving (about a meter tall, weighing about 20 kg) he had commissioned in Novosibirsk shipped to the states. At that time, I knew UPS didn't have much of presence yet in Russia, but expected (what with the movie and all) that FedEx could handle it. No such luck. So I then went to DHL. Same story. BOTH companies suggested that if I wanted to get it shipped to the U.S., the individual who was shipping it should first HAND CARRY it it to Moscow for trans-shipment; they themselves didn't pick-up freight from "the sticks" (after all, Novosibirsk only had a population of a couple of million or so, right?), and that there were NO associated Russian carriers that could handle it and/or that could be trusted to forward it to Moscow - absolutely NO ONE would take on insurance liability. Given that Novosibirsk is 2000 or more air miles away from Moscow, hand carrying didn't seem like much of an option but, in the end, that's exactly what was done....an Aeroflot flight officer who the shipper in Novosibirsk knew brought it as personal luggage to Moscow, where it was then shipped via FedEx.

Now, I'm quite willing to admit that things may have changed somewhat in the last couple of years....but not THAT much, the point being that international shipping in the old Soviet territories is still rudimentary, at best, compared to the Western counterpart.

As for your Brit friends, remember that DP/DHL is an authorized POSTAL carrier in the U.K., and using recognition on that basis as a comparison seems rather pointless, at least from my perspective.

Again, as I alluded to earlier, I'd urge you to check the volumes of the comparative Hubs. Granted, DP/DHL is much more of a presence in Europe (after all, it's the German post office - and still primarily owned by the German government as well) than in the U.S, and FedEx never has made much of an inroad into the European market....but UPS has been there for thirty years now, and began operations in many of the European markets when DP/DHL was still isolated in Germany and/or running envelopes of shipping manifests between Hawaii and San Francisco.

-scb-

[m57]

"Comrade", to go with your profile stating you are from Moscow I must admit to you what we say over here often. "The grass is always greener in the other guys yard." Your yard that is.
I do not see things as you do when addressing the U.S. ops of DHL. The managers in position to enable this company to grow stateside are limited in what they are allowed to do. The chain of command is still what it had been with the old DHL. The fact that the size of the company ( DHL, before DP added Airborne' s assets ) had no solid basis to compete nationally has not been improved due largely to the previously mentioned fault. They just do not know how to manage on the larger scale. In comparison, the Airborne managers who could handle daily operations even when problems arose because they knew the methods to deal with many factors. They didn' t rely on the "bean counter" numbers, they dealt with real numbers. They did not fight for new business by leaving behind their customer base. They did not put people out of work because they were the easiest cost to cut. They worked with the face of the company. We are those people, we make up this company now.
The major changes that came into play just before the holidays has taken on a permanent stain. There are customers who will not come back. Advertising? They have no interest in an unstable company, a company that makes bold statements and does not produce results. Where are the earnings? Where is the increase in sales? Where else are the cuts??
If the labor of this company is not taken care of and the managers are not allowed to manage then how can you or anybody who understands business see improvement?
Let the "BIG DOGS" loose, they know how to run their houses and are not worried about being held accountable. Some of those I have worked for/with have gained my respect for what they bring to the table. Others get nothing more than expected. I may not agree with all they say or do but I respect they will not hide behind anything. If what they have tried does not work they take responsibility. If they come up with solutions and progressive ideas they should be listened to not dismissed. Take a look at the top and tell me if the right decisions have been made. If you think so let me in on some. To stifle the talent of managers and labor who brought this company to DP' s interest is wasting more than just time.

By the way, subcontracting sucks. It is OUR work to be done by US. Get a grip.

scb, on Apr 13 2006, 08:57 AM, said:

......but UPS has been there for thirty years now, and began operations in many of the European markets when DP/DHL was still isolated in Germany and/or running envelopes of shipping manifests between Hawaii and San Francisco.

-scb-

-scbby-
As much as I remember about that time gone by I thought, FYI.....
DHL had an international gateway at JFK, MIA and other areas other than those you minimized. Not banging on UPS I can say that no company has worked with customs on a level as DHL does, even to this day. The progress DHL has made over 30 years certainly does not compare to UPS so it is no surprise they are failing to make gains here stateside.
Be well, m.

[overseas_teamster]

"Comrade"? Don't comrade me, I'm American with roots going back to the 18th century. I don't know anything about employee management relations at Airborne/DHL. And besides, that's not what the conversation is about here. We're talking about expansion and marketing.

scb, I would never dream of refuting any of your evaluations or statistics. I certainly have no numbers or spread sheets or annual reports to use as proof. It's more anecdotal evidence. UPS has almost no product recognition in Europe (and I've even seen their commercials here--in Romanian!). UPS may have to numbers to prove that they are profitable and growing in Europe, but numbers can be transfigured to give the appearance of profitability or loss, depending on the skill of the accountant.

I'm saying that UPS moving into the asian market is a good thing, because their product awareness as compared to DHL in Europe, is low. And that because DHL is a powerhouse of shipping in Europe and very profitable, it can afford to subsidize its American operation and still stay in business. Perhaps for quite some time.

Not that I don't enjoy a difference of opinion, but why would you argue with that?

[scb]

-m57-

The time I was referring to was when Deutsche Post operated as a separate entity, and DHL functioned solely as a transporter of emergency shipping documents between Hawaii and the mainland. - when WERE no DHL international gateways.

In truth, I can't help but separate that which I consider "DHL"....the organization that was first set-up by a few American lawyers, then taken over by Japanese investors, and that finally alighted in Europe to be shopped-around prior to being bought by Deutsche Post, and the organization that took the DHL name (Deutsche Post) after purchasing it. Deutsche Post was always "big time", albeit not in the international area until (a) it was confronted with UPS DOMESTIC competition starting in 1976, (b) it lost the most lucrative segment of it's business (i.e. - its German telephone monopoly) a short time later, and © when it was confronted with the fact that it was going to undergo privatization and lose its German mail monopoly as well (a process that's still going on). DHL, until its purchase by DP, was - at least in my estimation - by itself any more than a minor player; remember, it tried to sell itself to UPS and was turned down, because there - at the time - really wasn't anything there for UPS to buy.

Granted, DP/DHL WorldNet, in terms of REVENUE is a much bigger organization today than either UPS or FedEX....but, then again, so is GM and (I believe) Delphi. It's in the area of profitability that DP/DHL sucks, and that's in spite of still retaining the domestic (German) postal monopoly. Of course, it doesn't have to stay that way, by any means, particularly at a time when FedEx is stating that it's retrenching its Express operations to concentrate on "more profitable" customers (i.e. - deliberately surrendering market share and possibly revenue). Time will tell.

-scb-

[scb]

-overseas_teamster-

It's not just a question of individual evaluations or statistics; its the result of direct observation and "being there". And I'm sorry, but if you think anecdotal evidence collected from Russia, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Azerbaijan (which isn't even in Europe) or Romania is going to go far to convince me otherwise, well think otherwise.

Take a look at the streets of Berlin and Frankfurt instead of limiting yourself to Bucharest. See what colors are on the ground in Paris or Marseilles instead of just Riga. And where do you think more business is being done...on the streets of Zurich or Tallinn? And, granted, Finland makes some nice cellphones...but the country as a whole sure isn't a European economic powerhouse, is it? And, while Europe as represented by the EEC is an economic powerhouse of sorts, I can't help but note that NOT ONE (unless that status has recently changed for little Latvia or Estonia) is a member, or even being seriously considered as a member, of the European Union. And make no mistake about it; its the countries of the EEC that business people are thinking of first when they say "Europe".

Lastly - and as I just mentioned to "m57" - perhaps you ought to check just how "profitable" DP/DHL-WorldNet is. I'd maintain that it's been big on revenue, but mighty short on profitability....which is one reason why the German Reconstruction Bureau has had a hard time unloading its shares, and also why DP has decided upon a policy of retrenchment for DHL here in the US.

Being an also-ran, DP/DHL has taken upon itself to go into a lot of the secondary markets (like Russia, Latvia, Finland, etc) rather than going-full bore against the "Big Boys" in the major ones...heck, they even service N. Korea! And no doubt there are those in those markets that think they're the only - and most assuredly the biggest - game in town. But the fact is that they're not.

-scb-

[saddletramp]

I have friends in the UK who own a printing supply business dealing with all types of materials to the printing trade, including ink processing. The ONLY delivery business they deal with is UPS. Their reasoning is the fact that we offer them the only delivery system that handles all of there products.

DHL?, My freind Keith, being a staunch Brit, says he doesn't have much use for the company from Germany............

On most days they will generate multiple pickups and even have a UPS "lorrie" come and pickup large shipments.

You may not see them, but many in England do and use UPS everday.

[m57]

overseas_teamster, on Apr 13 2006, 10:24 AM, said:

"Comrade"? Don't comrade me, I'm American with roots going back to the 18th century.

My mistake, SORRY. I mistook that ("Comrade") as being friendly. Big mistake on my part gathering from your response. SORRY (only one meaning ). I guess things are different there. Nice to mention your ancestry here though, very impressive. Nice to know you are spreading those American roots there after all those years.
As you prefer I'll stick with the thread.
My opinion; They will dump more of those Euros " ...and that because DHL is a powerhouse of shipping in Europe and very profitable, it can afford to subsidize its American operation and still stay in business. Perhaps for quite some time."
Indeed for "quite some time".

-scb-
I too consider DHL for what it was and that was well before the hostages in Iran. That DHL could still get packages into Tehran then and was for some time the only link for foreign students ( it came to a quick halt ) to ship home. I only ask you to look at it may be further back than we both care to admit. They have taken baby steps. I will agree my hope that DP would take the old Airborne, use it with what DHL brought them, work it into the DP/DHL WorldNet and turn a profit is far away. Old Airborne always made me money on the stock even with the fat cats scoffin' the profits.

[scb]

-m57-

I wasn't even aware that DHL was delivering package to/from Iran during the hostage crisis. In fact, I thought it first began handling packages of any kind anywhere (i.e. - not just operating as a courier service carrying documents) in 1979, the year the Iranian hostage crisis began. I know that when I was working in Germany in the late 70's, it didn't offer a package service to/from Europe. Thanks for giving me some info I hadn't heard before.

-scb-

[JustTired]

m57, on Apr 13 2006, 11:14 PM, said:

If the labor of this company is not taken care of and the managers are not allowed to manage then how can you or anybody who understands business see improvement?
Let the "BIG DOGS" loose, they know how to run their houses and are not worried about being held accountable. Some of those I have worked for/with have gained my respect for what they bring to the table. Others get nothing more than expected. I may not agree with all they say or do but I respect they will not hide behind anything. If what they have tried does not work they take responsibility. If they come up with solutions and progressive ideas they should be listened to not dismissed. Take a look at the top and tell me if the right decisions have been made. If you think so let me in on some. To stifle the talent of managers and labor who brought this company to DP' s interest is wasting more than just time.

Gee.....sounds like the problems of another company I know!!!!!!

[plot]

DHL is the only company I use for international shipments to/from asia (not that I make alot)... they are very well established there and the business plan from the get go was to pump billions in profits from asia/europe into the new american market in order to give it a go. I don't think DHL planned on turning a profit anytime soon in the states, so they arn't to surprised or hurt by seeing negative income.

[krash]

I believe DHL had projected to break even this year(?), but realized that might have been too ambitious. Now, I believe they HOPE it will be next year, but want commit to it as they previously did
I'll try and find that link.

[DHL]

krash, on Apr 14 2006, 10:35 PM, said:

I believe DHL had projected to break even this year

They are working on the "break" part pretty well.
If they can work on the "fix" portion they might eventually get even. $$$$$
Kickin' more of us in the teeth instead of "fixing" the management continues to be a mistake. There are some really big people that were with DHL U.S. who absolutely suck, why are they still here? $$$$$ Whose idea was the plane mess???? Astar ground ops does nothing like we could and had done long before $pending on them. $$$$$
C' mon DP check the baggage. It will cost a lot less to travel lightly. Get them out of the way.

[krash]

DHL,
You know good and well that it's the faulght of us high priced Teamster's
It aint got nothing to do with those miss-managing managers

[DHL]

krash, on Apr 15 2006, 04:23 PM, said:

DHL,
You know good and well that it's the faulght of us high priced Teamster's
It aint got nothing to do with those miss-managing managers

My Brother.
You also must believe that they do actually realize our worth and hope to use less of us to do all that work. Why would they chase all the Int'l business while throwing the domestic volume up the river?
1 pc. $50.00 vs. 25 pcs. $2.00 ??? Same total
When the integrated company had plenty of work why was it not understood we were prepared to take on any Int' l business that came? They give business away while pushing the service. Now they need all they can get and guess what?

I'll also tell you as a former Airborne Express employee we were prepared to take all the U.S. work into our hands if they canned ALL the DHL driver/reps in the U.S. No person will admit it but I' ll ask for your take on that.