sawman,
You have NO clue, as to what you are talking about.
"Members" cannot pull out of a fund. The Company has to.
In doing so, the Company incurs finanical liability.
By the APWA showing its true colors in "trying" to start a new union, really demonstrates you are not Union at all.
What you are really doing, is perpetuating a scam, in an effort to FUND YOUR retirement.
-Bug-
2
120 replies to this topic
#22
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Posted April 02 2005 - 02:04 PM
-sawman-
What kind of numbers do you guys have? If you don't know exactly, you can just guess based on the popularity of the APWA in your area, facility, etc. I'm just trying to get a sense of how popular the organization is in areas that I have no exposure to.
I went to the website but there doesn't seem to be any information along the lines of "who we are"--in other words, exactly who the "membership" of this organization is. For all I can tell, it's two guys with a lawyer, asking for money. You have to appreciate how this looks to those of us unfamiliar with the organization.
I don't discount the possibility that these people are sincere, and I admire anyone for taking the issue seriously, I just think there are some almost insurmountable problems with how the APWA is approaching this issue. It would be different if I felt this "company" was a genuine union--in other words, a shared agreement between more than two people--which came into being after shared consideration and debate among many. You know, like if a whole bunch of disillusioned Teamsters decided to go for it. But these guys appear to have done all the debating themselves, and decided on what they think is an appropriate course of action. They don't even seem to have enough of a membership base to elect officers--they've simply appointed themselves in the hopes of someday having enough people to legitimately do so.
Well, is it any surprise that people are skeptical? I mean, none of us know anyone in the APWA. Who the hell are these guys telling us we need a new union? The shame of the whole thing is that even if you are right, and they have found they only sensible solution to the pension problem, the Teamster membership is going to be reluctant to consider the argument on the simple grounds that you are attacking their own organization which, while flawed, is still theirs, or perceived to be theirs. I mean, TDU has a hard enough time getting their point across, and they're certainly not calling for the dissolution of the Teamsters. (The fact that some routinely interpret it that way should give pause to anyone who actually advocates it.)
The fact is people identify with their union. You simply aren't going to win this debate attacking an institution that people fundamentally see themselves as a part of--even if you are right. You're going to get exactly what you are getting: people falsely accusing you of advancing your own interest.
What kind of numbers do you guys have? If you don't know exactly, you can just guess based on the popularity of the APWA in your area, facility, etc. I'm just trying to get a sense of how popular the organization is in areas that I have no exposure to.
I went to the website but there doesn't seem to be any information along the lines of "who we are"--in other words, exactly who the "membership" of this organization is. For all I can tell, it's two guys with a lawyer, asking for money. You have to appreciate how this looks to those of us unfamiliar with the organization.
I don't discount the possibility that these people are sincere, and I admire anyone for taking the issue seriously, I just think there are some almost insurmountable problems with how the APWA is approaching this issue. It would be different if I felt this "company" was a genuine union--in other words, a shared agreement between more than two people--which came into being after shared consideration and debate among many. You know, like if a whole bunch of disillusioned Teamsters decided to go for it. But these guys appear to have done all the debating themselves, and decided on what they think is an appropriate course of action. They don't even seem to have enough of a membership base to elect officers--they've simply appointed themselves in the hopes of someday having enough people to legitimately do so.
Well, is it any surprise that people are skeptical? I mean, none of us know anyone in the APWA. Who the hell are these guys telling us we need a new union? The shame of the whole thing is that even if you are right, and they have found they only sensible solution to the pension problem, the Teamster membership is going to be reluctant to consider the argument on the simple grounds that you are attacking their own organization which, while flawed, is still theirs, or perceived to be theirs. I mean, TDU has a hard enough time getting their point across, and they're certainly not calling for the dissolution of the Teamsters. (The fact that some routinely interpret it that way should give pause to anyone who actually advocates it.)
The fact is people identify with their union. You simply aren't going to win this debate attacking an institution that people fundamentally see themselves as a part of--even if you are right. You're going to get exactly what you are getting: people falsely accusing you of advancing your own interest.
#23
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Posted April 02 2005 - 03:04 PM
Thelaws,
Personally I don't pay any attention to those people who make these unfounded accusations.
Back to your questions.
The officers and members of the APWA were or still are Teamster members.
Most have grown tired of the way the Teamsters union is milking the members dry, and have decided to do something about it.
I am aware that it is going to take time to get the UPS employees familiar with the APWA, its officers and other members, but we feel that it is worth the effort. Remember, the Teamsters union started out with one or two people and a determination to make a deferance, and when they first started they were not a union either. There are step that must be taken before becoming a union, and the APWA is going through these steps one at a time. This is why they are an association at this point, but are working towards becoming a union.
The officers of the APWA are traveling every week to different cities across the country, holding meetings for any UPS employee that would like to find out more of what they are trying to do. If anyone that is not familiar with the APWA would like the officers to come to there area and hold an informational meeting they can go to the web page (ITSMYMAP.COM) and request them to hold a meeting in there area. They are not sitting around hoping that people will hear about them, they are out there beating the bushes.
Personally I don't pay any attention to those people who make these unfounded accusations.
Back to your questions.
The officers and members of the APWA were or still are Teamster members.
Most have grown tired of the way the Teamsters union is milking the members dry, and have decided to do something about it.
I am aware that it is going to take time to get the UPS employees familiar with the APWA, its officers and other members, but we feel that it is worth the effort. Remember, the Teamsters union started out with one or two people and a determination to make a deferance, and when they first started they were not a union either. There are step that must be taken before becoming a union, and the APWA is going through these steps one at a time. This is why they are an association at this point, but are working towards becoming a union.
The officers of the APWA are traveling every week to different cities across the country, holding meetings for any UPS employee that would like to find out more of what they are trying to do. If anyone that is not familiar with the APWA would like the officers to come to there area and hold an informational meeting they can go to the web page (ITSMYMAP.COM) and request them to hold a meeting in there area. They are not sitting around hoping that people will hear about them, they are out there beating the bushes.
#25
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Veteran Member
Posted April 02 2005 - 06:27 PM
Thelawshavechanged, you may want to show these apwa free-riders respect, but they sure have not done anything to earn it, or to earn the respect of any hard working, dues paying Teamsters. I come from a Teamster world built on solidarity and mutual support of all of our brothers and sisters and all of working America, and not one that seeks to prey on the misery and misfortune of others.
No better example of what their double talking program is all about than their conduct on this website. These wanabes have nothing better to do than set up permanent residence on TeamsterNet, try to dominate and spam this forum, continuously promote their own cause and agenda, use up all the bandwith that they can, and yet a quick glance shows that not a single one of them or their proponents have contributed one thin dime to TeamsterNet. Personally, I consider them a commercial anti Union enterprise owned and controlled by an anti Union attorney, that is using this free forum to promote their enterprise and their self interests. These leeches should be banned from posting on these forums even if they did contribute financially because all of their posts deal with self promotion and their stated goal of soliciting contributions of $150 per person. If they want to pay to advertise here, thats between T/N and them, but the forums are for discourse and not unending solicitation/promotion for their cause. Cheap skate freeriders don't even pop for the few bucks that many of us do.
alex y.
No better example of what their double talking program is all about than their conduct on this website. These wanabes have nothing better to do than set up permanent residence on TeamsterNet, try to dominate and spam this forum, continuously promote their own cause and agenda, use up all the bandwith that they can, and yet a quick glance shows that not a single one of them or their proponents have contributed one thin dime to TeamsterNet. Personally, I consider them a commercial anti Union enterprise owned and controlled by an anti Union attorney, that is using this free forum to promote their enterprise and their self interests. These leeches should be banned from posting on these forums even if they did contribute financially because all of their posts deal with self promotion and their stated goal of soliciting contributions of $150 per person. If they want to pay to advertise here, thats between T/N and them, but the forums are for discourse and not unending solicitation/promotion for their cause. Cheap skate freeriders don't even pop for the few bucks that many of us do.
alex y.
#26
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Hardcore Member
- Gender:Male
- Location:Georgia
- Local Union Number:728
Posted April 02 2005 - 07:08 PM
I heard that.............they need to start there own "apwa.net" site to peddle there crap. Im a Teamster and togeather we stand. Regardless of our craft!
But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Matt 6; 33
#30
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- Members
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- 221 posts
Member
Posted April 06 2005 - 08:46 AM
sawman- question. you state that these guys are still members of the Teamsters. Any comment on the fact that they are in gross violation of the constitution and bylaws (attempting to decert) ? If they are willing to thumb their noses at the constitution, what can people expect if they are officers in some new union? Will they only follow the rules they agree with? That would be typical of this type of worker. Shouldn't they demonstrate the courage of their convictions and resign membership? It is a right to work state right? Of course I don't advocate resignation, I think they are in the best Union in the world, but are they not being hypocrites?
#31
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Posted April 06 2005 - 07:04 PM
UPSbrother,
I did not say that the officers are still in the Teamsters union, I said that they were in the Teamsters union at one time.
I also stated that most of the members of the APWA were at one time in the Teamsters union and that some of those members have yet to resign there membership in the Teamsters union.
I did not say that the officers are still in the Teamsters union, I said that they were in the Teamsters union at one time.
I also stated that most of the members of the APWA were at one time in the Teamsters union and that some of those members have yet to resign there membership in the Teamsters union.
#35
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Member
Posted April 07 2005 - 04:23 PM
upsbrother,
I think "sawman" has told us everything we need to know.
The operative term being, they were Teamsters.
Again, they make No claim as to their experience, other than they were Teamsters. Alot of people have been Teamsters, or so they claim.
-Bug-
I think "sawman" has told us everything we need to know.
The operative term being, they were Teamsters.
Again, they make No claim as to their experience, other than they were Teamsters. Alot of people have been Teamsters, or so they claim.
-Bug-
#36
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- Members
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- 206 posts
Member
Posted April 07 2005 - 04:24 PM
upsbrother,
I think "sawman" has told us everything we need to know.
The operative term being, they were Teamsters.
Again, they make No claim as to their experience, other than they were Teamsters. Alot of people have been Teamsters, or so they claim.
-Bug-
I think "sawman" has told us everything we need to know.
The operative term being, they were Teamsters.
Again, they make No claim as to their experience, other than they were Teamsters. Alot of people have been Teamsters, or so they claim.
-Bug-
#37
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- Members
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- 565 posts
Member
Posted April 07 2005 - 06:20 PM
I've just been sitting back, seeing what unfolds. And by the own admission by sawman, they are not teamsters; they are scabs! And they employ a union busting firm as there counsel. The truth comes out sooner or later. And I'll bet these guys even crossed in "97". Why don't you guys just go into management.
#38
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- Members
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- 160 posts
Member
Posted April 07 2005 - 07:01 PM
I know I've heard this before, but here it goes:
Wrong again Teamsterman!
To my knowledge, not a single member of the APWA crossed the line in 97. As a matter of fact, every one that I am aware of walked that picket line including the officers.
Oh, and furthermore, I am a former Teamster shop steward.
Wrong again Teamsterman!
To my knowledge, not a single member of the APWA crossed the line in 97. As a matter of fact, every one that I am aware of walked that picket line including the officers.
Oh, and furthermore, I am a former Teamster shop steward.
#39
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Semi-Member
- Location:Texas
Posted April 07 2005 - 08:45 PM
I know I might be on the verge of spamming but...
The P.O. Box is because the rock these guys crawled out from under doesn't have a physical address.
I did a bit of snooping around myself. The P.O. box is indeed registered to a Danny E Eason (registered republican) of Garner NC I would give out his home address but sending money straight to his house might lead him to corruption.
I find it odd that niether of these Knuckle-heads with 25 plus years "with the company" say anything about their years as "Teamsters", could they be scabs?
And if you don't think your a Knuckle head sawman, then explain how their website says that membership in and dues paid are voluntary, then a couple points down they talk about cutting dues in half after 7 months. Which is it? I hope you get the representation that those voluntary dues pay for.
The website of their Union Busting Attorney boasts about defeating Union Organizing campaigns, and keeping companies Union Free.
These guys are morons, and if they are so upset about the Teamsters, then how bout they give back all the money that UPS has forked over for our free healthcare and pension package, because UPS would give a lot less if it weren't for the Teamsters, along with all the raises they have recieved in their tenure at UPS. Then pack up their shite and go to work for walmart!!
How much you wanna bet that these guys crossed the picket lines in 97?
There are pussies and lower there are scabs; but lowest of all... are those that are pussy scabs.
C
The P.O. Box is because the rock these guys crawled out from under doesn't have a physical address.
I did a bit of snooping around myself. The P.O. box is indeed registered to a Danny E Eason (registered republican) of Garner NC I would give out his home address but sending money straight to his house might lead him to corruption.
I find it odd that niether of these Knuckle-heads with 25 plus years "with the company" say anything about their years as "Teamsters", could they be scabs?
And if you don't think your a Knuckle head sawman, then explain how their website says that membership in and dues paid are voluntary, then a couple points down they talk about cutting dues in half after 7 months. Which is it? I hope you get the representation that those voluntary dues pay for.
The website of their Union Busting Attorney boasts about defeating Union Organizing campaigns, and keeping companies Union Free.
These guys are morons, and if they are so upset about the Teamsters, then how bout they give back all the money that UPS has forked over for our free healthcare and pension package, because UPS would give a lot less if it weren't for the Teamsters, along with all the raises they have recieved in their tenure at UPS. Then pack up their shite and go to work for walmart!!
How much you wanna bet that these guys crossed the picket lines in 97?
There are pussies and lower there are scabs; but lowest of all... are those that are pussy scabs.
C
#40
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- Members
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- 160 posts
Member
Posted April 08 2005 - 05:36 AM
2if,
Get your head out of your ass.
There has been a number of posts stating that the officers AND members of the APWA were long time members of the Teamsters union.
Also look up the meaning of the word scab before you go making false accusations.
Get your head out of your ass.
There has been a number of posts stating that the officers AND members of the APWA were long time members of the Teamsters union.
Also look up the meaning of the word scab before you go making false accusations.
