120 replies to this topic

[101st_Airborne]

You hear the complaints and criticisms of the APWA.

No union hall?

No more expensive overpaid arrogant union representatives to spend our expensive dues dollars?

No expensive overpaid arrogant union representatives that identify with the company more than the members?

No union bosses that never worked a day as a UPS worker lording over UPS workers at these Kangaroo court grievances panels?

No more union bosses living and eating large negotiating contracts for workers at a company none of them worked for and the employees they bring have no impact on the REAL contract and side deals the great fat ex-potato truck drivers negotiate for UPSers?

No more pensions for UPS workers that pay 40 cents out to them for every dollars that UPS pays into the system?

No more multi-million dollar electric laser light shows in Vegas and cracked crab buffets?

No more “corporate union?”

Oh yea, the sky is falling.



Those stupid APWA organizers want:

Better, cheaper, faster representation from elected representatives FROM the UPS work force.

Grievances panels populated by UPS workers that know who and what there abusers are.

Renting office space and halls only when needed.

Connecting members via NETMEETINGS, and deploying a computer based cyber organization to maximize time, dollars and services FOR the MEMBERS benefit.

Pensions and H/W that take full advantage of those dollars paid into a pension system by UPS.

A contract that protect jobs, (No UPS BASIC, GYPSY WORKERS, SUBCONTRACTING) and NO side deals or mid-contract sellouts.

Union representatives that are elected from with in the rank and file.

Closing loopholes in the contract UPS drives Mack Trucks through.

Higher wages, more flexibility in work days that don’t reduce overall compensation, and benefits that aren’t siphoned away to companies that couldn’t afford them anyway.

A strong, better, contract that rewards those that work for UPS and unites them in a common interest with out the baggage of an expensive inefficient bureaucracy and a pension plan that cannot pay them what they earn.

[101st_Airborne]

Oh yea, one more thing those bastard in the APWA want and will do....LOWER DUES!!!!!!!!!!

[UPSSup]

Sounds like you support them?

[Teamsterman]

101st_Airborne said:

Oh yea, one more thing those bastard in the APWA want and will do....LOWER DUES!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, lower dues. No strike fund, no organizing efforts. In other words, no strong union.

[101st_Airborne]

Teamsterman,

Are you talking about the Teamsters or the APWA?

[sawman]

Sounds like the Teamsters to me, AIRBORNE.

[BigUnionGuy]

101st_Airborne,


What planet are you living on ?

It must be TDU.

A perfect place.... filled with "delusions" of grandeur.


Funny thing about you TDU folks, all ideas.

"Mix the mayo in the can with the tuna fish..... Call Starkist...."


Never ceases to amaze me.


"I heard.... I Thought.... or Somebody told me...."

Know what you're talking about first, instead of spouting off about things you have no clue about.

Please.

-Bug-

[Jason]

i dont get it

[BigUnionGuy]

Jason said:

i dont get it

Jason,

Just pay attention.

The slugs are going to come out of the woodwork.



-Bug-

[sawman]

Bug,

That patch should be over both eyes, because you are a good example of following blindly.

[BigUnionGuy]

sawman,

And this comes someone like you, asking ME for an explanation of the 1% accural rate ?


25 year feeder driver ??


Bud, you have hit too many bumps in the road.



-Bug-

[sawman]

Bug,

Last time I checked, if you cut a 2% acrual rate to a 1% acrual rate, that is a 50% cut.

[BigUnionGuy]

sawman,

I really don't like having to repeat myself, but for your sake I will.


"I Thought, I Heard or Somebody told me....."


If in FACT, you are a participant in Central States, this information is available at: www.centralstatesfunds.org.

Or, how about picking up the phone and calling them at: 1-800-323-5000.

Maybe you could explain to them how the APWA is going to guarantee a $7000.00 a month pension. I'm sure they could use your advice.


-Bug-

[sawman]

I don't claim to have all the answers or that I am always right, but I do know this, One penny cut to a UPSers pension and health care is 100% to much, with the money that our company is paying.

Now, the officers of the APWA have done there homework and I'm sure they would be glad to argue numbers with you. (ITSMYMAP.COM)

[thelawshavechanged]

It's not that I necessarily question the motives of those behind the APWA proposal, I just don't understand the strategy at all. It seems to be premised on the assumption that organizations are either imbued with qualities that lend them legitimacy or they aren't, and that these qualities are immutable--beyond anybody's control once the organization has been created. The fact is, I would consider what you are suggesting--but only if I felt all other alternatives had been exhausted. Now you have the dual task of not only informing UPS Teamsters on the topic of the pension crisis, but also convincing them that abandoning their union is the only way to solve it. This is after, what?, like 75 years of history, tradition, and, at the very least, perceived accomplishments? Even if that amounts to nothing to you because of this particular issue, surely you recognize the enormous burden of proof you bear in convincing the rest of us that nothing can be done within the current framework; it can only be accomplished in the framework you have personally created and endorsed.

So my question is: what evidence do you have that we could not accomplish the goals set out by the APWA if we committed ourselves to accomplishing them within the current structure? Until we have some compelling reason to think otherwise, I don't see why we shouldn't be organizing around these issues as reforms within an institution most of us are still committed to.

[sawman]

Good questions Thelaws,

Have you tried asking these questions of the officers of the APWA on there web page (ITSMYMAP.COM)?

I will add this.

The reason for forming the APWA was because for a very long time we have been lobbying the Teamsters Union to take action on the matter of our failing pension and health care. All that anyone has gottin was a lot of double talk. Their favorite answers are: we don't know, We can't do anything about it, or It's the funds problem and falt.
So after many attempts to get the Teamsters to act, some of the people dicided to try and do something about the situation ourselves.

The Teamsters and the multi employer funds are against any changes for obvious reasons. It would not be to there financial benifit. So they will fight any attempt to separate, partion, or pull out of these multi employer plans.

Whether the APWA succeeds in there efforts, or the government allows partioning the funds, the results will be the same financially as far as the Teamsters are concerned.

[thelawshavechanged]

sawman said:

The reason for forming the APWA was because for a very long time we have been lobbying the Teamsters Union to take action on the matter of our failing pension and health care. All that anyone has gottin was a lot of double talk.

But that's because you're not in a position to make demands. This is the elementary concept that unions are based on: When people are broken up and isolated, like the APWA in this case, they put themselves in a position where they can be ignored. We can't begin by lobbying the leadership as a thin coalition of concerned members. We have to begin by lobbying the membership until we're organized enough and united enough to put ourselves in a position where those in positions of authority can no longer ignore our demands. This is the only way a "union" has power in the first place.

[sawman]

Ok Thelaws,

You get it going and we will back you 110%.

[thelawshavechanged]

What I can do is limited to the areas where I have influence--at my facility and among my co-workers, chiefly. I'm trying to get the information out there by distributing TDU's newspaper everyday and engaging people on the issues, at least to the extent that I am able, they are receptive, etc. Personally, I think TDU has a lot of potential in generating interest in union activism given it's emphasis on member participation, and I'm trying to use it as a way to at least move people from apathy and dependency on others (stewards, BA's) towards feeling informed and empowered on the issues that most affect them. If nothing else, my co-workers are exposed to a different perspective, and hopefully challenged to think critically about the PR releases sent out by the Hoffa administration, which though perhaps not false, are never going to be the whole truth, by definition.

My only point is to say that however we choose to do it, all Teamsters are called upon to take a leadership role among their peers to fill the information gap left open by local leadership who fail their basic responsibility to this end. Personally, I've found TDU really helpful; their newspaper is inexpensive to distribute and generally contains info worth knowing, including lots on the CSPF that I would otherwise have had no exposure to. Other than starting a newspaper at my facility (an idea for the future perhaps), I simply haven't found a better option.

Until we get our all our brothers and sisters up to speed on these issues, there's hardly any point in even having the debate. The only decision that will have any effect is the one the majority makes; if they choose apathy and inaction due to lack of information, it won't make any difference whether we had an appropriate solution or not.

[sawman]

Thelaws,

I don't mean to rain on your parade but, that is just the same old same old. I believe that you will have a harder time motivating people and selling your idea to UPSers than the APWA will have for one simple reason.

The only way that UPSers can hope to salvage there retirements is to separate it totally from the rest, either by partioning or a whole new retirement fund all together.