JAFO. WHERES YOUR ATTACK ON KIM. yOU ATTACK HIM IN EVERY OTHER POST.
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#22
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Posted August 22 2003 - 07:30 PM
| Quote: |
| [indent] 22-08-2003 at 20:28, Shaman wrote: It does sound foolish, doesn´t it? I wasn´t aware of the "blowing your nose too loud" policy and the "hair parted on the wrong side" policy. My Business Agent was stunned by the idiotic nature of my termination letter. Following is the letter he wrote to UPS. ======================= TEAMSTER UNION LOCAL NO. 78 492 “C” Street Hayward, California 94541 Telephone: (510) 889-6811 * Fax (510)889-0865 PETE WALLING, President STEVE MACK, Secretary-Treasurer September 13, 1996 Kim Muniz United Parcel Service P.O. Box 3850 Hayward, California 94540 Dear Kim: Please be advised that Local 78 demands a copy of the United Parcel Service Company policies as they pertain to the shop employees. If you do not or refuse to send us these policies, I will assume there are none. If so, it will be Local 78’s position no one shall be subjected to disciplinary action, for violations of such policies. If you disagree please let me know. Sincerely, Dan Varela Business Agent DV/ah [/indent] |
Charlie who cares? Nobody cares about you or your BS!
#23
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Posted August 23 2003 - 04:50 AM
Obviously the supervisors who post here are! You must admit, UPS uses the policy and contract to "win" whatever it is they want but when it comes to the members asking for fairness they ignore their own policy or make something up. This is common practice at UPS. Look at how they are running things now at their hubs. The contract may as well not even exhist. As for UPS policy I find if I ever need a good laugh I read the part about "Our People" and "Our Customers". What a riot.......Scb and Upssup could take this comedy act on the road for a side job!
#24
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Posted August 24 2003 - 08:46 PM
More U.S. Companies Have Gay Policy
August 24, 2003
Bhy Lisa Richwine
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More big U.S. companies prohibited discrimination based on sexual orientation and adopted other gay- and lesbian-friendly policies during the past year, according to a gay rights´ group survey released on Monday.
The Human Rights Campaign said 21 companies -- nearly double the number from last year -- received a perfect score on its "Corporate Equality Index" of how firms treat gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender employees and consumers.
"The bottom line is that successful businesses are increasingly recognizing that equality works," said Kim Mills, the group´s education director.
The group´s survey covers 250 companies from either the Fortune 500 or the Forbes 200 list of the nation´s biggest businesses.
Ninety-five percent had written policies banning discrimination based on sexual orientation, a rise from 93 percent a year ago. Seventy percent provided domestic partner health insurance, up from 67 percent last year.
Each company was rated on a scale of zero to 100 on seven factors. They included whether the companies had written anti-discrimination policies covering sexual orientation, provided health insurance for employees´ same-sex domestic partners and held diversity training.
Corporations scoring 100 included Aetna Inc., Bank One Corp., Intel Corp., Lehman Brothers Holding Inc. and Nike Inc.
Among the five lowest-ranked companies, with a score of 14, were Exxon Mobil Corp., whose shareholders repeatedly have voted down proposals calling for the company to explicitly oppose discrimination against gays and lesbians, and Domino´s Inc.
Exxon Mobil spokesman Tom Cirigliano said the oil company prohibits discrimination or harassment of any form. The company´s written policies do not specifically mention sexual orientation because it wants to make clear all discrimination is unacceptable, he said.
"You don´t discriminate, period, is our policy," he said.
Domino´s spokeswoman Lynn Liddle said the pizza delivery company has instituted nationwide diversity training and education and "strives to be the employer of choice for every high-quality individual who wants to excel" at its business.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.(NYSE:WMT - news), known for its conservative values, improved its rating to 43 after broadening its non-discrimination policy to cover sexual orientation and instituting diversity training.
The Cracker Barrel restaurant chain, part of CBRL Group, jumped from zero last year to 29 after it dropped opposition to a shareholder proposal asking the company to include sexual orientation in its non-discrimination policy and later adopted the policy.
August 24, 2003
Bhy Lisa Richwine
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More big U.S. companies prohibited discrimination based on sexual orientation and adopted other gay- and lesbian-friendly policies during the past year, according to a gay rights´ group survey released on Monday.
The Human Rights Campaign said 21 companies -- nearly double the number from last year -- received a perfect score on its "Corporate Equality Index" of how firms treat gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender employees and consumers.
"The bottom line is that successful businesses are increasingly recognizing that equality works," said Kim Mills, the group´s education director.
The group´s survey covers 250 companies from either the Fortune 500 or the Forbes 200 list of the nation´s biggest businesses.
Ninety-five percent had written policies banning discrimination based on sexual orientation, a rise from 93 percent a year ago. Seventy percent provided domestic partner health insurance, up from 67 percent last year.
Each company was rated on a scale of zero to 100 on seven factors. They included whether the companies had written anti-discrimination policies covering sexual orientation, provided health insurance for employees´ same-sex domestic partners and held diversity training.
Corporations scoring 100 included Aetna Inc., Bank One Corp., Intel Corp., Lehman Brothers Holding Inc. and Nike Inc.
Among the five lowest-ranked companies, with a score of 14, were Exxon Mobil Corp., whose shareholders repeatedly have voted down proposals calling for the company to explicitly oppose discrimination against gays and lesbians, and Domino´s Inc.
Exxon Mobil spokesman Tom Cirigliano said the oil company prohibits discrimination or harassment of any form. The company´s written policies do not specifically mention sexual orientation because it wants to make clear all discrimination is unacceptable, he said.
"You don´t discriminate, period, is our policy," he said.
Domino´s spokeswoman Lynn Liddle said the pizza delivery company has instituted nationwide diversity training and education and "strives to be the employer of choice for every high-quality individual who wants to excel" at its business.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.(NYSE:WMT - news), known for its conservative values, improved its rating to 43 after broadening its non-discrimination policy to cover sexual orientation and instituting diversity training.
The Cracker Barrel restaurant chain, part of CBRL Group, jumped from zero last year to 29 after it dropped opposition to a shareholder proposal asking the company to include sexual orientation in its non-discrimination policy and later adopted the policy.
The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. Ant then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
#25
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Posted September 18 2003 - 08:49 PM
Has anyone heard anything new on this case?
The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. Ant then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
#27
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Posted September 19 2003 - 06:52 AM
Thank you for asking. I was first motivated by self defense, a basic instinct. In the process of protecting myself it was necessary to work with others. I soon realized that I was engaged in a form of community service, albeit in the workplace. I had been doing community service, on a small scale, for a number of years before I found it necessary to address problems in the workplace.
I have been interested in Eastern philosophy for most of my life. I am a Catholic that converted to the Mormon Religion. I was drawn to Hinduism in the early 70´s. I gave my testimony at the local Mormon Church a couple of years ago. I described the experience that led me to Eastern Philosophy. Approximately 200 Mormons were present.
I began working with the Sikh community on religious freedom issues in the early 1990´s. The Hindu´s and the Sikh´s refer to community service, with the right attitude, as Seva. Seva is a spiritual path.
I am following my path while protecting myself and serving my brothers and sisters . Many of my friends share the same awareness as I. Some have devoted their lives to the practice of seva while others serve as their demeanor permits.
[ This message was edited by: Shaman on 19-09-2003 09:56 ]
I have been interested in Eastern philosophy for most of my life. I am a Catholic that converted to the Mormon Religion. I was drawn to Hinduism in the early 70´s. I gave my testimony at the local Mormon Church a couple of years ago. I described the experience that led me to Eastern Philosophy. Approximately 200 Mormons were present.
I began working with the Sikh community on religious freedom issues in the early 1990´s. The Hindu´s and the Sikh´s refer to community service, with the right attitude, as Seva. Seva is a spiritual path.
I am following my path while protecting myself and serving my brothers and sisters . Many of my friends share the same awareness as I. Some have devoted their lives to the practice of seva while others serve as their demeanor permits.
[ This message was edited by: Shaman on 19-09-2003 09:56 ]
The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. Ant then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
#28
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Posted September 19 2003 - 10:06 PM
Interesting. Another question I would like to preface by saying that I do not in any way mean any disrespect to you or your beliefs. Question - Your actions appear to make you the aggressor which would seem to be in conflict with your beliefs?
UPSSup
#29
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Posted September 21 2003 - 10:42 AM
"Question - Your actions appear to make you the aggressor which would seem to be in conflict with your beliefs?"
Answer - The aggressive pursuit of truth is not contrary to my beliefs.
Following are two books and a video that I would recommend as a good place to start in understanding the benefit of conflict with the right attitude.
1. The Magic of Conflict by Thomas F. Crum
2. The Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell
3. Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers, Part 1 * The Hero’s Adventure, (Long before medieval knights charged off to slay dragons, tales of heroic adventures were an integral part of all world cultures. Campbell challenges everyone to see the presence of a heroic journey in his or her life.)
There is a bonus interview with George Lucas on Mythology on The Power of Myth DVD. Joseph Campbell was an advisor to George Lucas on the mythology behind The Star Wars movies.
Click here to order the Power of Myth Video
Answer - The aggressive pursuit of truth is not contrary to my beliefs.
Following are two books and a video that I would recommend as a good place to start in understanding the benefit of conflict with the right attitude.
1. The Magic of Conflict by Thomas F. Crum
2. The Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell
3. Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers, Part 1 * The Hero’s Adventure, (Long before medieval knights charged off to slay dragons, tales of heroic adventures were an integral part of all world cultures. Campbell challenges everyone to see the presence of a heroic journey in his or her life.)
There is a bonus interview with George Lucas on Mythology on The Power of Myth DVD. Joseph Campbell was an advisor to George Lucas on the mythology behind The Star Wars movies.
Click here to order the Power of Myth Video
The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. Ant then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
#31
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Posted September 21 2003 - 12:58 PM
I don´t understand your question. I haven´t defined the principals of my faith nor am I sure what you mean by the term. Are you refering to doctrine and dogma. In order for me to violate doctrine and dogma I would have to belong to an organized religion. I don´t belong to an organized religion. I´m inspired by the teachings of organized religion to the extent that I recognize their Universal nature.
Take the Lone Ranger Creed for example:
The Lone Ranger Creed
"I believe that to have a friend, a man must be one.
That all men are created equal and that everyone has within himself the power to make this a better world.
That God put the firewood there but that every man must gather and light it himself.
In being prepared physically, mentally, and morally to fight when necessary for that which is right.
That a man should make the most of what equipment he has.
That ´This government, of the people, by the people and for the people´ shall live always.
That men should live by the rule of what is best for the greatest number.
That sooner or later... somewhere...somehow... we must settle
with the world and make payment for what we have taken.
That all things change but truth, and that truth alone, lives on forever.
In my Creator, my country, my fellow man."
The Lone Ranger Creed is a Universal Message.
Take the Lone Ranger Creed for example:
The Lone Ranger Creed
"I believe that to have a friend, a man must be one.
That all men are created equal and that everyone has within himself the power to make this a better world.
That God put the firewood there but that every man must gather and light it himself.
In being prepared physically, mentally, and morally to fight when necessary for that which is right.
That a man should make the most of what equipment he has.
That ´This government, of the people, by the people and for the people´ shall live always.
That men should live by the rule of what is best for the greatest number.
That sooner or later... somewhere...somehow... we must settle
with the world and make payment for what we have taken.
That all things change but truth, and that truth alone, lives on forever.
In my Creator, my country, my fellow man."
The Lone Ranger Creed is a Universal Message.
The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. Ant then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
#32
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Posted September 22 2003 - 04:51 AM
What I find most intersting here is that the after the law suit is filed. And, while this poor guy has been abused and threatened for 8 months.
Then the company responds to the law suit by saying that a change was forthcoming. It was going to be announced in September. MY ASS... these guys are a bunch of dishonest jerks.
If you had a guy twisitng in the wind, waiting for a change.. why wouldn´t you let him know that a change was forthcoming.... because it wasn´t coming, until he stood up to your discrimination and filed a law suit.
I´m more and more convinced that the only way to deal with UPS is with a lawyer at your side.
Then the company responds to the law suit by saying that a change was forthcoming. It was going to be announced in September. MY ASS... these guys are a bunch of dishonest jerks.
If you had a guy twisitng in the wind, waiting for a change.. why wouldn´t you let him know that a change was forthcoming.... because it wasn´t coming, until he stood up to your discrimination and filed a law suit.
I´m more and more convinced that the only way to deal with UPS is with a lawyer at your side.
#33
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Posted September 22 2003 - 06:45 AM
Shaman,
Surely the principles of your faith are based on serving mankind. It does seem however that your effort to promote lawsuits against UPS is driven by a spirit that is intent on gaining revenge against the corporation for the first job you lost as well as the second. Certainly a principle of all religions is forgiveness. Certainly a principle of all religions would be to recognize revenge every bit as evil as greed? In either case I sincerely do respect your search for a higher plane of conciousness and the opportunity to discuss your motivations.
Surely the principles of your faith are based on serving mankind. It does seem however that your effort to promote lawsuits against UPS is driven by a spirit that is intent on gaining revenge against the corporation for the first job you lost as well as the second. Certainly a principle of all religions is forgiveness. Certainly a principle of all religions would be to recognize revenge every bit as evil as greed? In either case I sincerely do respect your search for a higher plane of conciousness and the opportunity to discuss your motivations.
UPSSup
#34
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Posted September 22 2003 - 06:50 AM
Now read browns post above. I´m sure you frequently come across people who have developed the mindset he shows. In your search for a higher level of conciousness I would think you are almost repulsed by exposure to such a cromagnum thought process as brownie exhibits. In ways I´m sure your search for this higher plane must almost feel as if you have been raped or certainly violated when exposed to such rudimentary thought. But yet it appears like there is a part of you that relates to this lower beastle thought process and actually encourages the propagation of such ameobic gratification. Is there a battle that rages within your conciousness or have you somehow justified this assertion backwards?
UPSSup
#35
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Posted September 22 2003 - 09:24 AM
Dear UPS Sup:
I´m not easily repulsed. You have to remember that I was a Teamster for thirty- two years. I´m a mixed bag and so are you. We find what we´re looking for.
A law firm isn´t going to take on a case unless it has merit and/or the plaintiff will pay up front. Are you suggesting that a seeker of truth and justice should not use every means at their disposal to address gross problems in the workplace? Are lawsuits a form of revenge? Are you encouraging us to forgive and pray that our employer treat us in a humane and ethical manner? You’re not being realistic.
How about this..... Our employer doesn´t have a soul. Our employer is a corporation with a board of directors that has to answer to stockholders. Our employer puts profit ahead of human values.
I think that BrownSuks is on the mark!
I´m not looking for a higher level of consciousness. Who would it serve to say that one person is higher than another? We all have our lessons to learn. Our dialogue is part of the process.
Please tell me more about the first job that I lost as well as the second. I´m especially interested in this notion that I am motivated by revenge. I suppose that anytime someone files a grievance it could be called revenge. A warning letter could also be called revenge by the Company against an employee.
I´m sharing a letter, for the first time, which I wrote to our District Manager during the UPS strike. I hand delivered it to the Labor Relations Manager, Kim Muniz, while on the picket line. It should give you a better idea of my motivation.
Please say something about your motivation.
===========================
Charles R. Engel
theshaman@earthlink.net
Mike Kamienski August 11, 1997
District Manager
United Parcel Service
8400 Pardee Drive
Oakland, California 94621
Dear Mike:
I am in receipt of your letter to UPSer´s dated August 6, 1997. I spent a couple of hours writing a detailed response to that letter only to decide to discard it. How can I directly respond to an intentional distortion of truth that is simply too tragic for words? The tragedy lies in the fact that you so insincerely represent such a small dimension of what it means to be fully human.
It is obvious that much preparation went into your letter. You have been very clever in putting a distorting spin on the truth. When you can´t be truthful it becomes necessary to muddle the facts. It requires exceptional skill to write a letter such as yours. Or were the authors a team of corporate UPS propaganda ministers. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of them. It is obvious that you are hoping to take full advantage of the ignorance and fears of the average worker. If UPS were to prevail you would suck the vital life out of my community and leave us all with broken promises. I am one of a growing number that are here to see that you don´t.
One of the costumes I wear is that of a shop steward. I wear a Teamster jacket and hat and I speak up for the Union. I do so because I can sincerely say that my Union is acting in my best interest. It is in my best interest to speak up for my brothers and sisters of all races that haven´t yet learned to speak for themselves. I care about my community. I am more fortunate than most. I enjoy good wages and the protection of a strong Union. The New Teamsters are but one of many tools that I am learning to use in order to secure the rights that have been afforded the American worker by law. I am struggling to learn how to better protect my coworkers and myself from exploitation.
The temporary loss of wages is nothing compared to the horror of watching a corporate giant intentionally degrade the spirit of so many. What you are doing is contrary to the American family and the American way of life. Mike, you are a representative of the blank face of unmitigated corporate greed. You are a tentacle of a soulless, parasitic, corporate Goliath. It is your master. I am your antithesis. I represent the heart and soul. The New Teamsters do not wish to slay the beast, merely civilize it.
And that´s the way it is.
Chuck Engel
Steward, Teamster Local 78
Stockholder and Car Washer
cc:
Ron Carey, President, International Brotherhood of Teamsters
James P Kelly, Chairman of the Board and CEO, United Parcel Service
http://www.thesteward.net
Click here to view The Steward Web Page
Please note: The Steward Web Page has not been updated in several years.
======================
JOURNEY
The really happy person
is one who can enjoy the scenery
when on a detour.
- Unknown
![]("null")
![]("http://thesteward.net/rattle/03sand.gif")
I´m not easily repulsed. You have to remember that I was a Teamster for thirty- two years. I´m a mixed bag and so are you. We find what we´re looking for.
A law firm isn´t going to take on a case unless it has merit and/or the plaintiff will pay up front. Are you suggesting that a seeker of truth and justice should not use every means at their disposal to address gross problems in the workplace? Are lawsuits a form of revenge? Are you encouraging us to forgive and pray that our employer treat us in a humane and ethical manner? You’re not being realistic.
How about this..... Our employer doesn´t have a soul. Our employer is a corporation with a board of directors that has to answer to stockholders. Our employer puts profit ahead of human values.
I think that BrownSuks is on the mark!
I´m not looking for a higher level of consciousness. Who would it serve to say that one person is higher than another? We all have our lessons to learn. Our dialogue is part of the process.
Please tell me more about the first job that I lost as well as the second. I´m especially interested in this notion that I am motivated by revenge. I suppose that anytime someone files a grievance it could be called revenge. A warning letter could also be called revenge by the Company against an employee.
I´m sharing a letter, for the first time, which I wrote to our District Manager during the UPS strike. I hand delivered it to the Labor Relations Manager, Kim Muniz, while on the picket line. It should give you a better idea of my motivation.
Please say something about your motivation.
===========================
Charles R. Engel
theshaman@earthlink.net
Mike Kamienski August 11, 1997
District Manager
United Parcel Service
8400 Pardee Drive
Oakland, California 94621
Dear Mike:
I am in receipt of your letter to UPSer´s dated August 6, 1997. I spent a couple of hours writing a detailed response to that letter only to decide to discard it. How can I directly respond to an intentional distortion of truth that is simply too tragic for words? The tragedy lies in the fact that you so insincerely represent such a small dimension of what it means to be fully human.
It is obvious that much preparation went into your letter. You have been very clever in putting a distorting spin on the truth. When you can´t be truthful it becomes necessary to muddle the facts. It requires exceptional skill to write a letter such as yours. Or were the authors a team of corporate UPS propaganda ministers. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of them. It is obvious that you are hoping to take full advantage of the ignorance and fears of the average worker. If UPS were to prevail you would suck the vital life out of my community and leave us all with broken promises. I am one of a growing number that are here to see that you don´t.
One of the costumes I wear is that of a shop steward. I wear a Teamster jacket and hat and I speak up for the Union. I do so because I can sincerely say that my Union is acting in my best interest. It is in my best interest to speak up for my brothers and sisters of all races that haven´t yet learned to speak for themselves. I care about my community. I am more fortunate than most. I enjoy good wages and the protection of a strong Union. The New Teamsters are but one of many tools that I am learning to use in order to secure the rights that have been afforded the American worker by law. I am struggling to learn how to better protect my coworkers and myself from exploitation.
The temporary loss of wages is nothing compared to the horror of watching a corporate giant intentionally degrade the spirit of so many. What you are doing is contrary to the American family and the American way of life. Mike, you are a representative of the blank face of unmitigated corporate greed. You are a tentacle of a soulless, parasitic, corporate Goliath. It is your master. I am your antithesis. I represent the heart and soul. The New Teamsters do not wish to slay the beast, merely civilize it.
And that´s the way it is.
Chuck Engel
Steward, Teamster Local 78
Stockholder and Car Washer
cc:
Ron Carey, President, International Brotherhood of Teamsters
James P Kelly, Chairman of the Board and CEO, United Parcel Service
http://www.thesteward.net
Click here to view The Steward Web Page
Please note: The Steward Web Page has not been updated in several years.
======================
JOURNEY
The really happy person
is one who can enjoy the scenery
when on a detour.
- Unknown
The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. Ant then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
#36
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Posted September 22 2003 - 09:44 AM
To: All
Subject: Medicine men, gurus, bad mothers, bumper sticker pushers, etc
Sometimes I have to wonder how many budding "Jim Jones" we have in our midst. Phil´s doing away with "anonymous" posters blew away a lot of chaff, but it seemed to do nothing to inhibit the peyote-enhanced musings of the true kooks. Wild, isn´t it! All I can do is suggest not drinking the Kool-Aid....
-scb-
Subject: Medicine men, gurus, bad mothers, bumper sticker pushers, etc
Sometimes I have to wonder how many budding "Jim Jones" we have in our midst. Phil´s doing away with "anonymous" posters blew away a lot of chaff, but it seemed to do nothing to inhibit the peyote-enhanced musings of the true kooks. Wild, isn´t it! All I can do is suggest not drinking the Kool-Aid....
-scb-
#37
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Posted September 22 2003 - 09:22 PM
"A law firm isn´t going to take on a case unless it has merit and/or the plaintiff will pay up front.Are you suggesting that a seeker of truth and justice should not use every means at their disposal to address gross problems in the workplace? Are lawsuits a form of revenge? Are you encouraging us to forgive and pray that our employer treat us in a humane and ethical manner? You’re not being realistic."
Charlie you would not consider the wages and beni´s you recieve humane and ethical? I´m sure you would probably make the "thank the union" argument here , but at the same time UPS agreed to those terms and their contract history highlights the fact that they did so willingly. Your question about the lawyers stains an otherwise plausible argument. There is no animal lower in the ethics food chain then a lawyer. You can not claim the moral high ground as long as you are in bed with the lawyer. Yes you can use all tools at your disposal but you have to concede the the ethics issue as long as you do.
"How about this..... Our employer doesn´t have a soul. Our employer is a corporation with a board of directors that has to answer to stockholders. Our employer puts profit ahead of human values."
If true then your lawyers also fall into that same trap. Why is okay for them to be devoid of a soul , simply because they are using their evil for your side? That position appears to concede the ethics issue again.
"I think that BrownSuks is on the mark! "
I think Brownsuks is a caveman in the thought process. He´s probably been a great union guy because you can so easily brainwash him with union propaganda.
"I´m not looking for a higher level of consciousness. Who would it serve to say that one person is higher than another? We all have our lessons to learn. Our dialogue is part of the process."
Who is to say that the learning process is not a step towards this higher level of conciousness. Your clearly in a position of leadership because you have either directly or indirectly evolved to that higher plane. It certainly does seem to serve you?
" A warning letter could also be called revenge by the Company against an employee."
Perhaps but at the same time the company in this position is dealing with it directly . You appear to be generating action against UPS for things that did not affect you personally. You apear to be solicting this action rather then merely responding to injustice. The beliefs you claim would allow you to defend yourself not to be the aggressor.
"Please say something about your motivation."
In this time and space to better understand your actions which appear to be designed to hurt UPS. Not to help UPS be a better place to work but to hurt and destroy UPS. You thus puzzle me. As an example were I able to take the same position against your union couldn´t I prove they acted discriminatory against minorities and gays? Couldn´t I prove they conspired to act in the best interests of the union as a corporate entity rather than in the best interests of the members which are not always the same? No If I was as vindictive as you appear I could certainly take a lot of legal type action against your union that would possibly embarass it into settling cases just to get them out of the limelight. I´m speaking form a member perspective not a management perspectve. So with this in mind I´m having a hard time understanding how you could be so deep into religions that are based on service, humility and developing what is basically a peace loving conciousness when your actions speak of vindictiveness and revenge. I honestly think there is a part of you that is not associating with these religious philosphies that is driving you. Your dark side if you will. This dark side appears to conflict with your lighter side. I suppose I am intrigued. In either case the conversation is an interesting one and I´ll again state that I mean no offense. One facet of why I got into management is because I genuinely like people. I study them I learn from them. I appreciate those qualities that make them unique. Don´t confuse my occasional battles on this board with the cavemen and liberal nazi´s on this board with that part of me. Thanks again
Charlie you would not consider the wages and beni´s you recieve humane and ethical? I´m sure you would probably make the "thank the union" argument here , but at the same time UPS agreed to those terms and their contract history highlights the fact that they did so willingly. Your question about the lawyers stains an otherwise plausible argument. There is no animal lower in the ethics food chain then a lawyer. You can not claim the moral high ground as long as you are in bed with the lawyer. Yes you can use all tools at your disposal but you have to concede the the ethics issue as long as you do.
"How about this..... Our employer doesn´t have a soul. Our employer is a corporation with a board of directors that has to answer to stockholders. Our employer puts profit ahead of human values."
If true then your lawyers also fall into that same trap. Why is okay for them to be devoid of a soul , simply because they are using their evil for your side? That position appears to concede the ethics issue again.
"I think that BrownSuks is on the mark! "
I think Brownsuks is a caveman in the thought process. He´s probably been a great union guy because you can so easily brainwash him with union propaganda.
"I´m not looking for a higher level of consciousness. Who would it serve to say that one person is higher than another? We all have our lessons to learn. Our dialogue is part of the process."
Who is to say that the learning process is not a step towards this higher level of conciousness. Your clearly in a position of leadership because you have either directly or indirectly evolved to that higher plane. It certainly does seem to serve you?
" A warning letter could also be called revenge by the Company against an employee."
Perhaps but at the same time the company in this position is dealing with it directly . You appear to be generating action against UPS for things that did not affect you personally. You apear to be solicting this action rather then merely responding to injustice. The beliefs you claim would allow you to defend yourself not to be the aggressor.
"Please say something about your motivation."
In this time and space to better understand your actions which appear to be designed to hurt UPS. Not to help UPS be a better place to work but to hurt and destroy UPS. You thus puzzle me. As an example were I able to take the same position against your union couldn´t I prove they acted discriminatory against minorities and gays? Couldn´t I prove they conspired to act in the best interests of the union as a corporate entity rather than in the best interests of the members which are not always the same? No If I was as vindictive as you appear I could certainly take a lot of legal type action against your union that would possibly embarass it into settling cases just to get them out of the limelight. I´m speaking form a member perspective not a management perspectve. So with this in mind I´m having a hard time understanding how you could be so deep into religions that are based on service, humility and developing what is basically a peace loving conciousness when your actions speak of vindictiveness and revenge. I honestly think there is a part of you that is not associating with these religious philosphies that is driving you. Your dark side if you will. This dark side appears to conflict with your lighter side. I suppose I am intrigued. In either case the conversation is an interesting one and I´ll again state that I mean no offense. One facet of why I got into management is because I genuinely like people. I study them I learn from them. I appreciate those qualities that make them unique. Don´t confuse my occasional battles on this board with the cavemen and liberal nazi´s on this board with that part of me. Thanks again
UPSSup
#38
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Journeyman Member
- Gender:Male
- Location:Mendocino Coast
- Interests:Human, Civil & Worker Rights, Community Service, Gardening, Hiking, Reading, Writing & Miracles.
- Local Union Number:70
Posted September 23 2003 - 03:36 AM
Dear UPS Sup:
I appreciate the tone of our dialogue. It is constructive. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contemplate my motives and my actions.
In response to your post.....
"Charlie you would not consider the wages and beni´s you recieve humane and ethical?"
Wages and benefits don´t necessarily result in humane and ethical treatment. High wages and benefits can often override humanity and ehtics. Wages and benefits can lead an individual to ignore family and community. Titles have the same tendency. I would guess that those individuals that ran the Nazi extermination camps were paid good wages and benefits. The supervisors had impressive titles. Humanity and ethics are found in the genuinely caring individual regardless of wages and material benefits. This is also true of lawyers. I have met several lawyers that I respect. They have inspired me. Not all lawyers go after the dollar.
"I think Brownsuks is a caveman in the thought process. He´s probably been a great union guy because you can so easily brainwash him with union propaganda."
You obviously haven´t checked out my Web Page. I´m not brainwashed by Union propaganda and I´m not impressed by those that are. I´m can recognize someone that tells it like it is.
"You appear to be generating action against UPS for things that did not affect you personally. You apear to be solicting this action rather then merely responding to injustice."
This is the nature of selfless service. I´m not soliciting action, action is soliciting me. Look up the definition of solicit. I do derive some benefit from interacting with people that think critically. Here´s an example. I was contacted about a year ago by an investigator representing a widow and two children of a private citizen that was killed in an accident by an overworked UPS driver. The investigator contacted me after viewing The Steward Web Page and/or something I had posted on Teamsternet. I was able to provide the investigator and a law firm with documents and contacts that resulted in the widow and children being taken care of for the rest of their lives. UPS settled out of court. That material was used in at least one additional case on the East Coast. Coworkers and I didn´t receive monetary gain from helping these families that we never met.
"In this time and space to better understand your actions which appear to be designed to hurt UPS. Not to help UPS be a better place to work but to hurt and destroy UPS."
I´m impressed that you would think that I could possibly be instrumental in destroying UPS. I need to take a deep breath and get my ego under control. It´s really very simple. No one could possibly hurt or destroy UPS if UPS would simply take the correct action. Whose fault is it if a company if hurt or destroyed when the company breaks the law of the land and/or the law of common sense. Coworkers and I have simply been instrumental in pointing it out.
Coworkers and I are not solely focusing on United Parcel Service. We are addressing problems in other companies as well. A UPS driver and a former BFI driver are currently arguing their case in Federal Court without the help of an attorney. They have argued and won more than one motion. Their case appears to be prescident setting. The Randy Olson Federal Lawsuit is not over. Randy is currently waiting for a decision from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. I believe that Randy, with the help of a wonderful attorney, will prevail. Randy´s case will address problems with the Teamsters Union as well as UPS.
"So with this in mind I´m having a hard time understanding how you could be so deep into religions that are based on service, humility and developing what is basically a peace loving conciousness when your actions speak of vindictiveness and revenge. I honestly think there is a part of you that is not associating with these religious philosphies that is driving you. Your dark side if you will. This dark side appears to conflict with your lighter side."
I´m not driven by vindictiveness and revenge. We pay a price for focusing on such negative qualities. I´m not willing to pay that price. I´ve done this for too many years to reap that "reward". Perhaps I am motivated by love and compassion. I can´t say that I feel loving and compassionate all the time. Love, compassion, anger, frustration and bliss are more like waves that wash over me when I least expect it.
I suppose that I do what I do because it amounts to taking care of business.
Thank you for taking the time to write in such a constructive manner.
Namaste,
Charlie Engel
theshaman@earthlink.net
I appreciate the tone of our dialogue. It is constructive. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contemplate my motives and my actions.
In response to your post.....
"Charlie you would not consider the wages and beni´s you recieve humane and ethical?"
Wages and benefits don´t necessarily result in humane and ethical treatment. High wages and benefits can often override humanity and ehtics. Wages and benefits can lead an individual to ignore family and community. Titles have the same tendency. I would guess that those individuals that ran the Nazi extermination camps were paid good wages and benefits. The supervisors had impressive titles. Humanity and ethics are found in the genuinely caring individual regardless of wages and material benefits. This is also true of lawyers. I have met several lawyers that I respect. They have inspired me. Not all lawyers go after the dollar.
"I think Brownsuks is a caveman in the thought process. He´s probably been a great union guy because you can so easily brainwash him with union propaganda."
You obviously haven´t checked out my Web Page. I´m not brainwashed by Union propaganda and I´m not impressed by those that are. I´m can recognize someone that tells it like it is.
"You appear to be generating action against UPS for things that did not affect you personally. You apear to be solicting this action rather then merely responding to injustice."
This is the nature of selfless service. I´m not soliciting action, action is soliciting me. Look up the definition of solicit. I do derive some benefit from interacting with people that think critically. Here´s an example. I was contacted about a year ago by an investigator representing a widow and two children of a private citizen that was killed in an accident by an overworked UPS driver. The investigator contacted me after viewing The Steward Web Page and/or something I had posted on Teamsternet. I was able to provide the investigator and a law firm with documents and contacts that resulted in the widow and children being taken care of for the rest of their lives. UPS settled out of court. That material was used in at least one additional case on the East Coast. Coworkers and I didn´t receive monetary gain from helping these families that we never met.
"In this time and space to better understand your actions which appear to be designed to hurt UPS. Not to help UPS be a better place to work but to hurt and destroy UPS."
I´m impressed that you would think that I could possibly be instrumental in destroying UPS. I need to take a deep breath and get my ego under control. It´s really very simple. No one could possibly hurt or destroy UPS if UPS would simply take the correct action. Whose fault is it if a company if hurt or destroyed when the company breaks the law of the land and/or the law of common sense. Coworkers and I have simply been instrumental in pointing it out.
Coworkers and I are not solely focusing on United Parcel Service. We are addressing problems in other companies as well. A UPS driver and a former BFI driver are currently arguing their case in Federal Court without the help of an attorney. They have argued and won more than one motion. Their case appears to be prescident setting. The Randy Olson Federal Lawsuit is not over. Randy is currently waiting for a decision from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. I believe that Randy, with the help of a wonderful attorney, will prevail. Randy´s case will address problems with the Teamsters Union as well as UPS.
"So with this in mind I´m having a hard time understanding how you could be so deep into religions that are based on service, humility and developing what is basically a peace loving conciousness when your actions speak of vindictiveness and revenge. I honestly think there is a part of you that is not associating with these religious philosphies that is driving you. Your dark side if you will. This dark side appears to conflict with your lighter side."
I´m not driven by vindictiveness and revenge. We pay a price for focusing on such negative qualities. I´m not willing to pay that price. I´ve done this for too many years to reap that "reward". Perhaps I am motivated by love and compassion. I can´t say that I feel loving and compassionate all the time. Love, compassion, anger, frustration and bliss are more like waves that wash over me when I least expect it.
I suppose that I do what I do because it amounts to taking care of business.
Thank you for taking the time to write in such a constructive manner.
Namaste,
Charlie Engel
theshaman@earthlink.net
The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. Ant then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."
-- President James Madison
02-03-2012
#39
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Member
Posted September 23 2003 - 03:46 AM
If I had a full day to do it , I would answer UPSSup´s above nonsense on a point by point basis but this part is truly classic and I can´t resist:
Oh, we´re not confused in the least:
15-02-2003 at 19:47, UPSSup wrote:
As the originator of this thread demonstrated dumbasses and shitheads do post here. Cocks do not.
Yes, his love for people comes shining through on a daily basis doesn´t it? At least a rare moment of candor came in the last sentence of the last post quoted.
| Quote: |
| [indent] 23-09-2003 at 00:22, UPSSup wrote: "...One facet of why I got into management is because I genuinely like people. I study them I learn from them. I appreciate those qualities that make them unique. Don´t confuse my occasional battles on this board with the cavemen and liberal nazi´s on this board with that part of me. Thanks again [/indent] |
Oh, we´re not confused in the least:
| Quote: |
| [indent] 13-10-2002 at 13:48, UPSSup wrote: Another sign of your insanity. You think I care if you use the thing or not. I´m just hoping you can learn to stop pissing and shittting yourself. The stench is hideous. Oh by the way thanks for your thoughts and try to have a urine free day. Ta Ta [/indent] |
| Quote: |
| [indent] 11-12-2002 at 00:17, UPSSup wrote: Another idiotic post by Kim Cotter. Course if the stupid ***** (b-i-t-c-h) actually showed up at by door step and got plugged the world would be a better place. I´ll consider it. In the meantime Kim put your house up as collateral and get your bail money ready. [/indent] |
| Quote: |
| [indent] 12-12-2002 at 09:25, UPSSup wrote: Numb Nuts eh? Tell me what program you would use that would count all the posts in a single day? Your web site counter would count total posts not total posts in one day. Again your the idiot that apparently sits around and counts my posts, playing with that little vienna sausage mother Nature stuck you with. In fact you are clearly my *****_boy here on this web site serving me your master by counting my posts. Your service sucks because you counted posts by another *****_boy of mine who mimics me but your my *****_boy none the less. [/indent] |
15-02-2003 at 19:47, UPSSup wrote:
As the originator of this thread demonstrated dumbasses and shitheads do post here. Cocks do not.
| Quote: |
| [indent] 09-01-2003 at 02:02, UPSSup wrote: the bittch is always looking for a new scam to run. DANm I tiHnk Im FUckeD UUpp. [/indent] |
Yes, his love for people comes shining through on a daily basis doesn´t it? At least a rare moment of candor came in the last sentence of the last post quoted.
#40
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Posted September 23 2003 - 06:14 AM
"I do derive some benefit from interacting with people that think critically. Here´s an example. I was contacted about a year ago by an investigator representing a widow and two children of a private citizen that was killed in an accident by an overworked UPS driver. The investigator contacted me after viewing The Steward Web Page and/or something I had posted on Teamsternet. I was able to provide the investigator and a law firm with documents and contacts that resulted in the widow and children being taken care of for the rest of their lives. UPS settled out of court. That material was used in at least one additional case on the East Coast."
See Charlie this is the part I do not understand. You say thank the union for your beni´s but yet the union did not take care of the widow and her kids. UPS did. Again you laid down with the evil slime that desecrate your eastern religous philosophy called lawyers and sued the Company. Why didn´t the union make sure the widow was set up for life since that corperation which you blindly serve is supposed to be so caring?
See Charlie this is the part I do not understand. You say thank the union for your beni´s but yet the union did not take care of the widow and her kids. UPS did. Again you laid down with the evil slime that desecrate your eastern religous philosophy called lawyers and sued the Company. Why didn´t the union make sure the widow was set up for life since that corperation which you blindly serve is supposed to be so caring?
UPSSup
