Phil, Krash and other TNET monitors, I humbly request this post remain on the UPS Board. It clearly has connotations relative to the CBA, working conditions and all UPSER’s. Thanks for your consideration.


Brothers and Sisters,

The following is an E-Mail I received from James Brown Earls, the author of the “Big Brown Lie” a UPS Teamster Feeder Driver in Alabama. In my opinion, it is disturbing and cause for concern for every UPS Teamster Union Member. Below it is my response.

For the sake of brevity, I have also added just a few of the responses I’ve received from across the country. I post this information with the fervent hope that some discourse between UPS Teamster workers and other Teamsters will result in a more dedicated, and informed rank and file.

The link James Brown Earls was so disturbed about is here: http://www.pupsinc.homestead.com/union.html


In Solidarity,

Douglas Page Chapman Sr.
6619 Dralle Road
Monee, IL. 60449-9431
708-534-0490-home
Realadvocate@aol.com
Proud Teamster 36-1/2 years, Locals 734, 708, 710, and 705, retired from UPS in 1995




In a message dated 3/3/2007 9:40:26 PM Central Standard Time, jamesbrownearls@yahoo.com writes:

Doug:

I am very disappointed in your organizations (N.A.B.E.R) attack against APWA and the two UPS employees who started it. They may not have experience in running a union, but like myself it doesn't take that sort of experience to know where you've been screwed. I think having 25 years experience in getting "fucked" by the Teamsters and then having the balls to step up and do what is needed (pulling out of the Teamsters) is enough for me.
My question to you and anyone else is "Why would you want to support something that robs you of your money, and fucks you every time you turn around?" That's stupid. If the Teamsters were DOING their job then there would not be a need for NABER...would it.

The petition you are now circulating has been done before...By ME. I turned it along with 300 pages of evidence and over 2000 signatures from 13 states over to the U.S Attorneys office, My Congressman, My Senator and guess what...NOTHING has happened.

Where was the Teamsters during this? Why wasn't they doing the petition? Why wasn't they the ones defending Dan O'shay and the thousands of others whose life was destroyed by UPS? Because, their in bed with UPS and paying for the hotel with YOUR dues money...That's why.

I guess you think the IPA are a bunch of damn scabs too. Check out the IPA history, here's the link for you (http://www.ipapilot.org/about/history.asp) and take careful notice when you read it. TWO employees with NO experience in running an international union got fed up after years of getting fucked by the Teamsters and through violence and death threats formed their own union. Where would we have been without the IPA in 1997 during the UPS strike ? IF they would have been in the Teamsters we would have been FUCKED sure enough. But...hey...that sort of sounds like APWA huh? What experience do all of you have. Your group is so quick to defend the IBT what the fuck have they done for you. Your pension. What fucking pension. Who gets it when you die?

I know for a fact that your group has not interviewed APWA officials, but yet you propagate the masses with your half truths and lies...doing the bidding of the IBT and Hoffa. Thanks for helping Hoffa fuck us more.

APWA's claims to a be able to get the employees a $7000 a month pension, but you say they can't. Do like I did and go to Edward Jones financial services and have them run you a retirement model with UPS's weekly contribution of $225 week at 8% over 30 years...Hmmmmmm. looks allot like $7000 to me.
Your article about APWA taking over the 50 billion or so pension fund is nothing but a lie. Let's look at the facts and what is offered...

Your Teamsters offer:
1). A 6% penalty for every age year under age 62 on YOUR money if you retire before age 62.
2). If you die and do not have the meager survivor benefit your money goes to CENTRAL STATES and not your family.
3). After you reach full retirement age and can draw no more money Central States gets the $225 a week payment made to you...YOUR money...NOT YOU!
4). Your spouse upon your death gets a portion of your money for a limited time
5). Central States gets your money if you quit before becoming vested
6). When you retire you get to pay$1070 a month for you and your wife for the unions SHIT insurance with a $100,000 life time cap.
7). When you retire you cannot work anywhere or risk having YOUR money stopped
. Your Teamster bosses draw several pensions and can work anywhere they so choose
9). With the amount UPS paid in on your behalf you should retire with almost $1,000,000, which should net you $7800 or so a month in retirement benefits, but you are lucky to get 1/2 that.
10) Hoffa appoints the pension fund trustees with NO accountability.
11). Pension fund trustees approve loans that often times go uncollected in excess of $77 million some years.

Now let's look at APWA
1). One pension and one salary for ALL officers. The same pension as the rank and file.
2). Work anywhere upon retirement
3). If you die anyone you designate as beneficiary gets your FULL amount of pension
4). Insurance for you and your spouse upon retirement is $300 with a cap of $1 million
5). Rank and File elects fund trustees, who do not get compensated for serving
6). No loans will be made from the pension fund
7). you have the choice upon retirement to withdrawing 1/2 lump sum of total money paid in and then draw a partial benefit
. no retirement penalty
9) up to the minute website to verify weekly contributions made by UPS

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can make the right choice between the IBT and APWA.
APWA does NOT intend on seizing control of the employees current pension fund...yet another distorted lie on your site. Legally APWA cannot do that...but hey...the way it's looking the money that Central States isn't going to be there anyway...because,they've fucked us out of it.

APWA will create a separate fund managed by a world wide financial institution. Employees would draw two pensions...one from Central States or whomever the IBT has, plus APWA's fund if you work under it for five years. But, if you are getting ready to retire at UPS now and when APWA comes in...those employees who do not work five years to become vested still get their money that was paid in on their behalf in a lump sum.

As far as the "union busting attorney" hired APWA to handle the RD campaign at UPS who would you hire? An attorney who specializes in tax law, or maybe one who handles probate? No..........you hire one who specializes labor law. You failed to mention that, and you failed to mention that the "union busting" attorney will be let go immediately after APWA wins the election. Oh.......You also failed to mention that your Teamster president Hoffa served as a corporate attorney for both UPS and Yellow Freight AGAINST union members...now the sorry rat bastard runs your union...Be sure to post that to your site.

If you're going to post information pensions I suggest you go to the ERISA website and read it very carefully before making any other half ass post. Who goes to make any deals with UPS about the pension? Once again read fucking ERISA!

APWA would be able to provide a pension... A NEW PENSION...in addition to the Teamsters CONTROLLED one, which APWA has no control or no interest in controlling. SO.....lets do some math...

If Central States provides the current retirement benefit for example of $2500 for 30 years
and....the employee works 5 years under APWA and gets an additional benefit through APWA and NOT Central States nets that employee TWO pensions. One through Central States and one through APWA.. So, $2500 plus $1,000 = $3500 for thirty years service. This is how they INCREASE the benefit for that employee. THEY DO NOT TAKE OVER IBT MANGED FUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

APWA is structed just like the N.A.L.C (letter carriers union). Why would anyone support supplement in a labor contract. That's ludicrous and stupid. APWA will bring everyone under the SAME agreement country wide. But, I know why your group doesn't support that...because, you have it better up there than we do down here. WE DO THE SAME WORK.. Therefore everyone will be treated the same.....period. Anyone who knows anything about leverage bargaining will agree that this will provide APWA with the much needed leverage rather than one area of the country getting sold out to apease another locale. Chicago has their own contract set aside from our agreement. That will be done away with.
APWA agents will represent only UPS employees, unlike current the current IBT structure of representing sometimes over 100 different agreements per local. APWA will eliminate the pork structure of IBT structured conferences and joint councils. Local offices will be set up per state areas, and additional locations as needed. APWA WILL have LOCAL Union OFFICES.. Where in the hell did you get that APWA wasn't going to have local union offices? The IBT? Check your facts first. Oh...and supplements fuck other people in area's of the country with poor negotiators. It is stupid to have 10 or more suplemental agreements when everyone works for the same company...unless of course it benefits you...but, hey...fuck everyone else as long as a select few get their's huh?

As far as electing officials goes one good thing about APWA is that the goverment will NOT be supervising the election unlike your little Hoffa now. And...the members will have the right to elect their officials WITHOUT a consent decree. APWA will True democracy!

Your website say the same bullshit that the IBT is spreading around at anti-APWA meetings. Kind of makes me think different about your group..Maybe your members need to know this information.

I look forward to serving APWA's new members in Florida, Missisippi, Lousianna and Albama as the Gulf Coast Regional Manager for APWA.

James Earls, chief APWA SCAB
APWA Gulf Coast Regional Manager

P.S
As a major player in this new union I will be in the position to finally help every current and former employee at UPS. I will see that EVYONE will get justice and that the truth WILL be exposed about UPS.E

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.





Folks,

Those of you that have wondered where James Earls disappeared to need wonder no more. For those of you who DO NOT recall James Brown Earls, he's the UPS Feeder Driver in Alabama that wrote "The Big Brown Lie".

I will answer James after I get over the "SHOCK", and give his statements some thought. Any comments suggestions will be appreciated. For now, let me just say that I believe in fixing problems from within, my marriage, my family, my friends, my town, my local government, my state, my country, and last but not least, my UNION (TEAMSTERS). If and when that fails, I will attempt what ever remedies the law and or government entities allow.

When I retired, I became a non-entity, with regard to UPS and the Teamsters. Hence the forming of PUPS Inc. and NABER Inc.

Have at it and me folks, after YOU get over the SHOCK!!


Douglas Page Chapman Sr.
6619 Dralle Road
Monee, IL. 60449-9431
708-534-0490-home
Realadvocate@aol.com






James Earls, chief APWA SCAB
APWA Gulf Coast Regional Manager


James, the following response is MY OPINION and mine alone. Please don’t try and blame other folks for MY OPINION. I was shocked by the E-Mail you sent especially after the call you made to me on 12-05-2006, at 7:03PM. You told me that the folks running the APWA were threatening you, but you said the tape recordings you made of those threats would help you bury them and help the rank and file. You also told me you were going to send me documentation proving your accusations against the APWA and their agenda. You further stated that T. Coleman the attorney of record for the APWA represented UPS against you in a previous situation. Was that true? If not why on earth did you say that? Why aren’t you listed on the APWA site with your new title?

Some of us were concerned about your well being because no one has heard from you in a very long time and we believed you were going through a lot of adversity and pressure. I was relieved after the above-mentioned call. Now we’re worried again, because of the e-mail you sent to me admonishing me for posting the truth about the APWA on the NABER site.

Judging by the venom and hatred for UPS/BROWN and the Teamsters expressed by you in the E-Mail in question, I don’t believe anything I could possibly say would be taken as it was meant. However, for the record; “I do not hate UPS/Brown as it has been in my family for over 50 years.” Furthermore, “I do not hate the Teamsters either. I do however have a great many problems with those individuals running both entities. It’s a corrupt people problem in both entities that needs to be changed and addressed.

Both of my folks were in Unions all their adult life and firmly believed in their representation for the working class. Mom was the President of a CWMA local for workers at Illinois Bell Telephone. Dad was a Local 705 member working for UPS/Brown, until he had a stroke. If and when UNIONS fail to represent the rank and file, its no ones fault but the rank and file.

Let me make it perfectly clear: NABER is an advocate for UPS Folks, I/we DO NOT assault the APWA, or UPS/BROWN either. The site posts information that is 99% obtained from newspaper articles, Court Cases, and other reputable distributors of data and information. Only approximately 1% is my opinion and clearly I’m not assaulting anyone.


Our mission is stated very clearly at the bottom of the first page where it states:



N.A.B.E.R. Inc. is not anti-UPS or anti-Teamster. But rather is dedicated to persuading both organizations to honor not only the letter but also the spirit of their agreements with UPS employees and retirees.

The information on this website does not constitute legal advice. The law is constantly changing, and we make no warranty of the accuracy of information on this site or any site to which we link. If any information on this website is incorrect, please inform us and we will correct it.

N.A.B.E.R. Inc. is not in any way, shape or form affiliated with "VICTIMS OF UPS"

National Alliance of BROWN Employees and Retirees Inc. is a not for profit corporation in the State of Illinois

I believe the above statement explains my/our intent!!! I must say that you were against forming NABER Inc. in 2004 when we discussed it and against my involvement with Mr. White of the NAACP. James, if your still intent on believing what my intentions are, please go here; http://www.americanretiree.com/activist/articles/brown.shtml

I’m getting the feeling from you that unless James Brown Earls is running the show, the show is no good. I can tell you unequivocally that NABER Inc. has and will make a difference in FOLKS/UPSERS lives for the better, because we have and make a concerted POSITIVE effort, NOT a NEGATIVE demeaning, effort.

As is stated above in our Disclaimer, ”If any information on this website is incorrect, please inform us and we will correct it.” So… I will be posting your E-Mail in its entirety, this response, and other responses I/we receive, by adding a Hyper-link with the APWA references for the benefit of those folks you apparently feel are being miss-lead by me.



“Where was the Teamsters during this? Why wasn't they doing the petition? Why wasn't they the ones defending Dan O'shay and the thousands of others whose life was destroyed by UPS? Because, their in bed with UPS and paying for the hotel with YOUR dues money...That's why.”

Is right on the money. That’s why I/we are doing our utmost to help Dan O’SHEA.

Your statement;

“I look forward to serving Aiwa’s new members in Florida, Missisippi, Lousianna and Albama as the Gulf Coast Regional Manager for APWA.”

Bothers me a little as you substituted the term; “Regional Manager” that is definitely not a Union designation but is UPS/BROWN vernacular. I would have thought you would have a title of Regional Representative or Regional Vice President. Clearly my Brothers and Sisters have enough “Managers” in their life when on the clock. Of course if you become a UPS/BROWN Gulf Coast Regional Manager for APWA”, then Manager will be appropriate. Is there another group named Aiwa’s that is forming to help the UPSER’S? If so, we need to know about it so we can help them out too?



“If you're going to post information pensions I suggest you go to the ERISA website and read it very carefully before making any other half ass post. Who goes to make any deals with UPS about the pension? Once again read fucking ERISA!”


Is probably right, as I clearly don’t have the acute knowledge and understanding of every aspect of ERISA that you apparently have. I downloaded it and printed all 634 pages. read, highlighted, tagged, re-read, and filed it in 2 large 3 ring binders.

My mistake was probably that I concentrated on Multi-employer Plans, not Single Employer Plans, which would be the type of pension UPSER’s would be subjugated to when and if APWA takes control of Union Representation.

Your statement

“Your website say the same bullshit that the IBT is spreading around at anti-APWA meetings. Kind of makes me think different about your group..Maybe your members need to know this information.”

Will be posted on NABER for all to peruse. Once more your right! Folks need to know how and why you think the way you do and how you arrive at those conclusions. Not only that, if the APWA can prevail and deliver everything they are professing, I might come out of this boring retirement to ascertain these great new pension benefits.



“ What experience do all of you have. Your group is so quick to defend the IBT what the fuck have they done for you. Your pension. What fucking pension. Who gets it when you die? “

I don’t believe I/we have defended the UNION.

On the contrary, if you check our “accomplishments” page, http://www.pupsinc.homestead.com/ACCOMPLISHMENTS.html you will see that we’ve taken on what used to be a very corrupt Local 705 UNION until 1992. You have raised some interesting thoughts though. That being said, with the $3,000.00 Reciprocal Pension I have been receiving over the last 11 years, I know I got every contribution with earnings made on my behalf by the 5th year, and since then my pension money for the last 6 years far exceeded any income I would have/ could have earned by investing. But then again, I could have spent it on Lottery Tickets and became a millionaire.

Your statement

“But, I know why your group doesn't support that...because, you have it better up there than we do down here. WE DO THE SAME WORK.. Therefore everyone will be treated the same.....period. Anyone who knows anything about leverage bargaining will agree that this will provide APWA with the much needed leverage rather than one area of the country getting sold out to apease another locale. Chicago has their own contract set aside from our agreement, That will be done away with.”

Is Bogus! Pensions are geared and tied to the cost of living in a particular area and the negotiated contract contribution rate. Sure folks like me who receive large pensions could/would retire and move to Alabama. Where the cost of living is much lower and live like Kings and Queens. My Saintly wife and me haven’t/ will not be doing that. So… you are right. I’m not very BRIGHT and shame on me!

As for: “That will be done away with.” Not in your wildest dreams!! Locals 705, 710 and others have had and will maintain their complete autonomy. We folks here in Chicago didn’t just “fall off the turnip truck.” Me thinks that’s why we’re better off than Central States, the Western Conference, and others across the country.

Your statement

“It is stupid to have 10 or more suplemental agreements when everyone works for the same company...unless of course it benefits you...but, hey...fuck everyone else as long as a select few get their's huh?”

Is unfortunately true in a lot of aspects and areas. I would point out to you that some of us are altruistic to a fault. Why would me and others still be helping others as well as staying involved in order to assist our Brothers and Sisters still working, when we could as you so astutely put it; “hey… F### everyone else as long as a select few get theirs”

The statistics you set forth will be posted as a link on NABER Inc. as soon as I can contact the other folks involved and get their permission. That way, those who wish can/will get your perspective and judge for themselves. I suppose that’s why you included the statistics as you see them in your E-Mail to me.

James, if you would care to make other comments with regard to other information on NABER, PLEASE contact me and I’ll do my best to accommodate your perspective, objections, etc. if the other folks involved give me the go ahead.

James, we’ll have to do this again. Please go over the rest of the NABER site when you get a chance and correct all of the other things you find to be inaccurate. I/we will greatly appreciate the help.

James, in spite of your ill feelings towards me I wish you, your 10 year old daughter, and your new girl friend the very BEST now and in the future. It was good hearing from you! Stay safe my Brother.

In Solidarity,

Douglas Page Chapman Sr.
6619 Dralle Road
Monee, IL. 60449-9431
708-534-0490-home
Realadvocate@aol.com





Friends,

Wow, that is a shock. I read the whole thing before reading the signature! What a surprise. I thought he had more sense than that. And I thought he spelled better than that.

Here is something I posted on the Brown Forums this weekend:
------
I have some concerns about APWA. I've read that their lawyer, Tom Coleman, has made a career of union busting, but now if we dangle enough money in front of him he will come over to the Union cause and build the strongest Union UPS has ever seen. Does this guy not have any passion for what he has spent his life doing? Does he have no personal feeling about unions? If he is just a whore for the money than how much money will it take to get him to abandon a lucrative career fighting unions and join the labor side? And where will that money come from? Our dues will be the only source of money to the APWA and how much of my dues will they give this whore?

The claim that the UPS Pilots Union broke off from the Teamsters and formed a strong union is like comparing apples and oranges. A union is only as strong as it's members' make it. When the pilots voted on their last contract, the participation was over 90%. The members make that union strong. Our last contract vote had far less than a 50% participation. The average UPS Teamster is not highly educated or highly motivated like an airline pilot. They don't participate in Union activities and without their enthusiam, APWA will be no stronger than the Teamsters.

The claim that APWA will bring bigger defined pension benefits to UPS members is almost a moot point, but it's their biggest selling point. Defined benefit pensions are dead. UPS no longer gives a defined benefit pension to management, they changed to a defined contribution pension months ago. FedEx announced this week that they will cap their defined benefit pensions in 2008 and roll them over to a cash balance plan and all new hires will have a defined contribution plan. Every major company today is dumping their defined benefit plans. So for APWA to sell themselves on the notion that they will wrestle a larger defined benefit pension from UPS is nuts. Why would UPS give a new union a defined benefit pension? That doesn't make sense.

---------------------------------

On that forum someone had posted that APWA had sent out 20,000 enrollment cards this week and planned on 50,000 next week and 50,000 the week after. I believe those numbers are grossly exaggerated, but if true, add up the postage alone that such a mailing would cost them. Staggering. Where is the money coming from? With an anti-union lawyer, I can only imagine who is funding them. I still believe UPS is pushing it, and that Coleman plans to fold the whole thing if successful and UPS will be non-union, and be able to say it was the choice of the membership that decertified the Teamsters.

What really surprises me is that APWA can suck in someone like James Earls. But then again, how much do you really know about James Earls? Good book. Hates UPS. What else? I didn't realize he hated the Teamsters that much. He misread a few of the things you were saying, like the stuff about APWA not having any Locals. They don't have any locals and a local isn't something you can set up overnight and make into a hard boiled knucklebuster just by saying it ought to be that way. It takes the right people and it takes making some mistakes, mistakes that can cost people their jobs. APWA seems to think they won't make any mistakes. It takes a lot of money (which APWA doesn't have), or without that, it takes dedication to work long hours for "the cause" and not for the money. A union has to be for the long haul and I don't believe they will find people that dedicated.

But the pension is the thing that really amazes me. If they got UPS to pay them what UPS is giving to Central States, Central States would fold like a deck of cards. So there goes the base pension that they say will be the foundation of your big pension. Central States cannot survive without UPS. UPS would never agree to give APWA a defined benefit pension anyway. Forget that, it ain't gonna happen. And that's their big draw. It's not the representation, it's not even the contract. It's the pension. They say it will be a defined benefit pension for UPSers only. Well, UPS has already eliminated the defined benefit pension for new management. Why would they sign on with APWA for a defined benefit pension? Why wouldn't they seize the moment and just kill the defined benefit pension? I think UPS will be the big winner if this thing goes anywhere.

I also think that UPSers are not big voters. If they ever got a 35% turnout on something it would be a big day and most of that 35% are the drivers. The parttimers don't vote. That's just the way it is. They don't care. They don't have a Teamster pension either. They have a UPS pension which APWA won't have any control over. APWA will have a hard time selling their snakeoil to the majority of the drivers. So even if they were to get a decertification vote, I don't think they could win it. The Teamsters have been silent so far, they would put on quite a show if it came to a vote. And they have the network of stewards in the buildings to get the vote out.

So......... I think it's a tale … full of sound and fury; signifying nothing . But I am shocked about James Earls. Wouldn't it be ironic in the end if they won to find out UPS was behind it all. James Earls in bed with UPS! I wonder if you would get an apology?

CO.




Doug,

Wow, epithets-a-plenty! Should a proper response be in the same colorful colloquialisms?

May I?

"You can't f*#& please all the f*#&ing people all the f*#&ing time, but at least I f*#&ing try. Thanks for your opinion, and your tolerance of the opinions of others, and have a nice f*#&ing day."

How's that for a first draft? Kidding, of course.

Hey Earl, we can all agree to disagree, right? One suggestion though, keep this bit-- "As a major player in this new union I will be in the position to finally help...."-- off of the resume. It sounds a little egocentric, perhaps unfocused. Maybe it's' just me.

CA.




Doug,

Just one more thought, this time with an eye on the long game. Suppose Mr. Earl contacts you with an apology. Perhaps he says he was "drinking and dialing" (or inebriated emailing), what then?

My guess is you will have already posted the conversation on the site, but you remain neutral and welcome him back to participate and allow him to present additional arguments for APWA, or any other concern. NABER, in my opinion, should always take the high road. We have thick skin. We are not afraid of dissent or opposing viewpoints. Argument is healthy.

It's possible that even a groundswell of irresponsible rehetoric from APWA might have unforseen consequences, such as prompting reforms or improvements in the existing pension policies, or to the current Teamster negotiations for 2008, as a purely preemptive and defensive tactic. People are talking suddenly talking about pensions. Great. I am glad people are talking about pensions benefits, period. And asking questions. There are, after all, no stupid questions, just stupid answers. Get the arguments out there. Encourage people to think. Maybe even invite a response from the Teamsters or the Pension Trust. There is potential benefit to this, it is not merely a James Earl meltdown.

You are probably prepared for James to become either an enemy, or (if he has any political instincts at all) ask to reconcile and pick up the pieces. And he chooses the latter, I expect he will be treated with respect. We all fuck up (to use his vernacular), but it is one thing to err and refuse to fix, and quite another to acknowlege a mistake and endeavor to improve.

Keep that door open, Doug. None of us would have survived at UPS if we did not give lattitude to those who occasionally lose their minds.

I think I am preaching to the choir here, right?

CA



Doug,

I have to admit, he’s right that Local 639 should have been the one to be fighting my case, not me. Everything else as I was reading in Earls’ email looked to me to be someone who typed just as incoherently as he talked (from what Doug said several months ago when Earls called him) almost as if he was on some kind of medication.
I’ve got to say, you’d think it was Earls who was mistreated and wrongfully discharged. I’ve never heard Rob, Charlie (and me) appear to be engrossed in such hatred. A person without such self-control I certainly wouldn’t want to have in leadership in my union. There’s enough of those that exist already at the Teamsters and UPS. We don’t need another guy foaming at the mouth telling us to go ‘faster’ or whatever.

It doesn’t even deserve a reply unless a reply is for the membership and some ‘enlightenment’. But to him personally, it doesn’t even deserve a response back.

What is disappointing is that he was talking two years ago concerning a RICO lawsuit and now we find out all he did was put out a petition. Hell, I’ve gone through a panel, the NLRB, a district court and a US Court of Appeals and found such collusion that they’ll all violate precedent, rules, laws and the constitution and he thinks a ‘petition’ was going to do anything? In this age of Republicanism?

I think the guy’s snorting something 3 or 4 times a day. I will comment on one topic though. The Teamsters Union and this is just my opinion.

They’re done if the system isn’t corrected.

In the past 10 years we’ve seen UPS target senior employees. There was a time when senior employees with over 20 years were untouchable, now they’re the targets and the union has a big hand in it. Terminations rid UPS of those on disability or comp or just can’t run and skip there hour lunch anymore. Replace them with new flesh at a much cheaper hourly wage. The union gets to rid themselves of a pension that is close to being called in.

When I was discharged at the panel hearing, I can still remember a guy, Ron Joseph on the current slate and as an officer (who worked for Ron Carey for a while at the IBT) get word from the transcriber at my panel hearing who said afterward, “If there was ever a lawsuit to hit this panel, this one’s it.”

That transcript drips with RICO violations all over it, talking about interpreting laws, no due process and an insurance company who called my workers comp lawyer 12 hours after the hearing requesting to settle, at 8:45 in the morning!
The other thing Ron said, which alluded to this topic about the Teamsters is “This is something (meaning my termination and how it was manufactured) that changes systems.”

Am I for leaving the Teamsters? That’s a loaded question. Do we want a RICO lawsuit that would destroy the Teamsters? I think not.

Do we want a RICO civil/criminal lawsuit that would change the system (panels and bargaining) that would force the Teamsters to represent their members? I think that would be the best goal.

Which I alluded to a long time ago. What is eventually going to happen sometime in the future, whether its us or another group, is that a RICO lawsuit for hundreds of millions of dollars is going to rise up, with multiple plaintiffs. It has to. The flaunting of the law by UPS, the Teamsters, the NLRB (becoming very pro-republican and starting to delete all past protections) and the courts, such a suit is inevitable.

Arrogance builds upon arrogance until all law is disregarded and the courts, whether it is us or some entity in the future will rise up and force them to come to their senses.
SC.



Doug,

I don't know where to start.

I'll need to look this over a few more times.

Initially, of course like you I do not think APWA is the right way to go, but at the very least, his pension lists create a basis for reform for our pension plans.
CI.



Doug:

I don’t favor the Teamsters over the APWA or the APWA over the Teamsters. I’m in favor of stating the truth and letting the cards fall where they may. The APWA pension guidelines look too good to be true. I’ll be sending documents next week.
NC



Doug,

Another niggling detail of Earl's diatribe that especially goads me to distraction is "5). Rank and File elects fund trustees, who do not get compensated for serving".

Now I understand the need for fiduciary vigilance, but this particular promise just smacks of pandering to a misplaced populist sentiment.

Trustees must be volunteers! Oh, that sounds so noble. But, uh... can we have a reality check, please?

Trustees serve a valuable function and, in their position of officers, expose themselves to fiduciary and legal consequences for breach of their duty. This ain't a board for the local little league organization. This is the big time.

The pitch sounds good, and it certainly generates hyperbole and fuel for discontent among the rank and file, albeit a misdirected discontent. But it is so basically wrong. And getting something so basic, so wrong-- just because it sounds good in a campaign-- gives me cause to question the integrity of the entire movement. Why make such a fatal promise? Could it just be that promises are being made without regard for consequences simply to sway members into making a stupid decision? The only purpose such behavior, in my eyes, would be to confuse the issues-- a means to an end. "Tell 'em what sounds good, eh?".

Bottom line about governance is that boards, trustees and the like are compensated positions for a good reason. Yes, trustees may only meet periodically, and the compensation per meeting may initially seem outrageously high, but there exists deep responsibility in assuming such a position. I would want to attract top-flight candidates to oversee our pension. And if top-flight candidates are willing to donate their due diligence and time, and risk the potential liability, without any compensation... well... cool. God bless 'em. I just don't see them lining up to do so. The UPS Pension Fund is not a charity. And a charity is the only place one generally expects to find a volunteer board. Where does a multi-billion dollar business enterprise find justification in demanding that top business professionals donate their extremely valuable time to provide me their governance, for free, just for the honor of overseeing my retirement plan? A board should be diverse, and not simply include popular figures from our membership.

I can't figure this one out. But the APWA plan insists that we forgo the pension pros for our board. I seem to live in a parallel universe to theirs, the one where you only get what you pay for.

I expect trustees to subject a pension plan to the highest scrutiny and governance. I would expect to compensate trustees accordingly for this skill, diligence and dedication. It's a weighty responsibility. You simply must provide compensation to this person. It seems like a no-brainer.

Am I out-to-lunch? What am I missing here? It seems like a recipe for disaster to me. Who thinks-up this stuff?

Yeah, lots of problems within the pension plan, but establishing a rule for a volunteer board solves nothing. And the cavalier assumption that it does solve something means we have a major disconnect basic to this APWA proposal.

Grrrrrr. That felt cathartic. Thank you for allowing me to vent.

CA

Plain and simple, this is an APWA post and is all about APWA and it belongs in the APWA forum or the trash can. If it were not an old and regurgitated APWA post it would be considered as SPAM. All you guys did was bad mouth our Union while you used this website to fraudulently solicit donations and other payments. What more could you want than to have your own forum. Now you want to pollute the rest of the forums while you pay for nothing.

Practicing a little more selective censorship alex-y? Looks like it is clearly an Anti-Teamster AND Anti-UPS post and should remain here. Of course I know you think it should remain in the APWA forum so that UPSers who may be unaware of the APWA will NEVER be exposed to it.

Well heck JAFO, why don't we move all the APWA post over here and make it required reading before accessing the UPS forum.

AlexY
I will read over the post and consult VJ and the other mod's to see if any action should be taken, like pinning and/or moving. It does have some APWA overtones, but may be more Teamster/UPS related though.